Indian Atrocities

Discussion in 'The Cesspool' started by madanthonywayne, Oct 14, 2007.

  1. madanthonywayne

    madanthonywayne Mourning in America

    I am sick of people always blaming the US for all the worlds ills. So, under the glass houses doctrine, let us discuss some of the atrocities committed by the great nation of India.

    Let's see, we've got widespread rape by Indian security forces:
    Torture:
    Gee, that sounds worse than being put in a pile of naked men while some hick chick laughs at you.

    Then there's the treatment of their "untouchables":
    And if you thought it was bad in the US for blacks before the civil rights movement:
    And this bit here is almost unbelievable:
    They had to pass a special law to make it clear that it was illegal to forcibly parade people naked thru the streets; make them eat shit; take their land; foul their water, and burn down their homes!!!! WTF!!!!!!

    And check out this horrific story:
    Perhaps Brian de Palma could make a movie about this.

    And, of course, they have great respect for the rights of women and children:
    http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2003/06/0602_030602_untouchables.html
    This was just the first two links I found under "Indian Atrocities". Maybe you guys can find some more. I'd say this stuff makes the infamous abu ghraib seem like fraternity pranks.
     
  2. GeoffP

    GeoffP Caput gerat lupinum

    ....whoa. Is that for real?
     
  3. ashura

    ashura the Old Right

    As an American, I place the US on a higher standard than I do any other nation. We should be better, and for a great amount of things we are. That doesn't mean that whenever we get a finger pointed at us for doing something wrong that we should childishly point back. It means that we should either accept that we did something wrong and do our best to prevent it from happening again, or do our damned best to prove that we did the right thing. Again, not compare what we do to what another nation does because, quite simply, we should be better.
     
  4. S.A.M.

    S.A.M. uniquely dreadful

    Its terrible, especially with the decade and a half of war at the border

    In Kashmir
    http://www.hrw.org/reports/1999/kashmir/doda.htm
    http://hrw.org/english/docs/2006/09/08/india14159.htm


    In Sri Lanka
    http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpa...op/News/World/Countries and Territories/India

    Hopefully they are trying to make things more transparent


    The challenge before the COAS (Chief of Army Staff) is clear - institutionalizing a culture where human rights are not seen as adversarial to the army. This will not be easy. The short-lived success of the army's goodwill initiative in the Ladakh region (Operation Sadabhavana) epitomizes the problems ahead. Pushed largely by one senior officer, the process was relegated to the backburner soon after his departure from Leh. In that sense, as good as it may be to have a progressive COAS; this cannot replace systematic and institutional change in the army.

    Human rights violations, unfortunately, continue to be reported regularly, leading one to believe these are systemic and institutional. Even in situations where the protection of special legislation (e.g. The Armed Forces Special Powers Act) may be available, the current practices of the army are unlikely to pass the required threshold of international humanitarian law. In cases where action on complaints is taken, the focus remains on the individual violators; no examination is made to ask if the violations are institutionalized in the de-facto operating procedures of the army. This is necessary, because some standard operation procedures - e.g. 'taking no prisoners' in fire-fights in Counter-Intelligence Operations (CI Ops), and the use of torture to extract information - inherently lend themselves to rights violations.

    Especially with th effects on army personnel
    http://www.indiatogether.org/2007/jan/fah-army.htm

    he Indian Army has been surprisingly candid in releasing figures of the suicides and fratricides that have wracked the force in the recent past. A report out of Kashmir in the Himal of December 2006 carries the revealing statistics that in October this year there were ten fratricide cases as against only three deaths in combat operations. All told, in the first ten months of the year, the army lost 55 soldiers to terrorism in Kashmir, while one third more took their own lives. It is not a figure that any army would release of its own, since morale related security reasons would have stymied such openness.

    That 500 defense personnel have reportedly either committed suicide or were killed by colleagues in the past four years indicates that the problem has crossed the threshold in which it could be treated as internal to the army. The Ministry of Defense has had to write to the Army to act more liberally in the grant of leave to its soldiers as a stress relieving measure. This is the first issue that the newly appointed Minister of Defence, A K Antony, has involved himself with, indicating the concern in South Block.

    Cops are the same, underpaid, undereducated, undertrained and overwhelmed
    So they are now sent for destressing programs to help them to control rage and frustration

    http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/1190361.cms

    Fortunately our problems are all being addressed by the government and the people.
     
  5. S.A.M.

    S.A.M. uniquely dreadful

    Perhaps but that is no reason to ignore the fact that India has the capacity to do better than what is present:

    Here for example is Boston Globe article on India's role in supporting the military junta in Burma

    http://www.boston.com/news/world/asia/articles/2007/10/14/indias_identity_crisis_in_burma/

    Certainly not a role I want to see as the future of Indian policy.

    Its good to keep the media light focused on such things so they don't become an acceptable part of the government policy
     
  6. ashura

    ashura the Old Right

    There's a difference between pointing out the fact that India has the capacity to do better, and specifically using India's weaknesses as a response to criticism of our country and it's policies.
     
  7. madanthonywayne

    madanthonywayne Mourning in America

    Well sure, but it gets a bit tiring to see damn near every thread turned into a bash America fest.

    And really, I can't get over that Prevention of Atrocities Act. Was poisoning wells legal prior to that? Or burning down houses? Or stripping people naked and forcing them to march down the street? Or forcing them to literally eat shit!
     
  8. madanthonywayne

    madanthonywayne Mourning in America

    It's called perspective. America's ills are magnified and put on the Jumbo-tron by people from nations in which our worst actions would be a huge improvement.

    Look at the De Palma movie highlighting a single infamous rape commited by US soldiers. Yet in India this practice is so widespread as to seem a deliberate policy. And nary a movie in site. Until I did the google search, I'd never heard a word about it.
     
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2007
  9. S.A.M.

    S.A.M. uniquely dreadful

    No, but accountability is required. A law makes people accountable.

    Eating shit as a form of torture is not a new phenomenon.

    You must have heard of the expression "eat shit and die!"?
    http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&...qg8&q=forced to eat feces torture&btnG=Search
    In terms of sheer magnitude of conflicts and deaths caused in countries, you beat everyone hollow; it's hard to escape the US influence in any conflict ridden country in the world today. The sad part, of course, is how little the people of the US themselves care about it.
     
  10. S.A.M.

    S.A.M. uniquely dreadful

    Hopefully, seeing it happen in other countries will give them a fresh perspective on how they appear to others.
     
  11. madanthonywayne

    madanthonywayne Mourning in America

    Yes, but weren't those things already illegal? I can't imagine a legal system that would allow the actions covered by the Prevention of Atrocities Act.
    Sure, but I'd never heard of anyone actually doing it. I mean, if I tell someone to "blow me!", I hardly expect them to drop to their knees and perform fellatio!
     
  12. spidergoat

    spidergoat alien lie form

    That's because you seem unable to comprehend the enormity of the mistakes we have made recently as a nation. We have (had) something like the Prevention of Atrocities Act, called the Uniform Code of Military Justice, which the Bush Justice Department specifically undermined by condoning some forms of torture.
     
  13. S.A.M.

    S.A.M. uniquely dreadful

    They wouldn't but most of our laws range from the British and need updating.
    But the fact that there is a phrase called blow me, should tell you it does happen often enough to warrant a phrase.
     
  14. ashura

    ashura the Old Right

    And I still disagree with using that tactic as a response to criticism. The point you're trying to make is "Hey, we could be a lot worse."
     
  15. Buffalo Roam

    Buffalo Roam Registered Senior Member

    From what I have read in MadA'a post, we do operate at a higher standard, there has been nothing like this in Iraq or Afghanistan, or any war since the Indian Wars.


    ashura, when every post by SpAM is nothing but a endless propaganda attack on the U.S. as the evil in the world, isn't it permissible to look at SpAM's country, the person who is doing the attacking, and ask the same question's, why isn't she doing more to clean up her own country's atrocities? It seems SpAM has more than enough to keep her busy cleaning up India with out worrying about the U.S. India's suppose to be the biggest democracy in the world, it also seems to be the biggest violator of human rights in the Free world.

    But yet she sits safe at her daddies home and make endless attacks about America, I wonder what would happen to Her if she got her ass out on the streets and started to do something about the mess in her own back yard, or is it safer to attack the U.S. because she knows that she can do so with impunity? at home she just might end up in jail? at the Least? or worse?

    So SpAM sits in daddies home and does nothing, but point fingers at everybody but India because it is safer for her precious little butt to do so, and she feels like she is doing something.
     
  16. Gustav

    Gustav Banned

    as the pre-eminent member and representative of the aryan defence caucus in sciforums
    i take issue with these false accusations
    you barbarians are hopeless
    animals
     
  17. Gustav

    Gustav Banned

    naya zindagee
    naya jeevan

    fools
     
  18. S.A.M.

    S.A.M. uniquely dreadful

    You're Indian!:eek:

    Please tell me you are ABCD
     
  19. Gustav

    Gustav Banned


    so wonderfully childlike ja?
    my fellow americans glow with pride at the ability to nuke anyone at the drop of a hat

    the fuckers are renowned for hypocrisy
     
  20. milkweed

    milkweed Valued Senior Member

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