In the Beginning was God

Discussion in 'Religion Archives' started by Quigly, Jun 11, 2007.

  1. Quigly ......................... ..... Registered Senior Member

    It is difficult to imagine the universe not having some form of a creator. Something to set all things in motion. Some say it is the big bang, but even then the matter had to come together from somewhere. Equally as difficult for my head to get around is that what was before God. It is our nature to always look for what begat what. If God is now, what was that created God...

    It is human to not understand how all things work as we see life as linear...beginning and end and thus we have time. If God is outside of Time, he could be encompassing the beginning and the end at a present state. So when someone says we die and go to heaven for an eternity, we think eternity as a literal beginning and an end. In a timeless state, if soul & mind stay intact, we will be capable of having time. A thought creates time. Speech creates time. In a timeless state, I can snap my fingers and it can be measured.

    It is hard to understand that God exists outside the parameter of what we can understand. Does it make it less true? More true? I don't know. Some say God created Sin and so he is a malecious (sp) God. Is it possible for God to be certain things and everything outside of his being is something else. If God says, I am Love, everything outside of Love is outside of the nature of God. If I put a fence around my yard and say everything inside this fence is mine, it doesn't matter how many other fences are put up and what goes on outside of that fence as it doesn't pertain to what I have valued to myself or my own. So religion creates fences and some have placed their fences in part of Gods yard and the rest of the fence in their own yard and try to say, God is inside my fence, come find him here, even though reality says, they may have their fence overlapping Gods shrub garden, but they sure don't have it around his sauna or rose garden.

    Don't know if that makes sense or not. Discuss.
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  3. ashura the Old Right Registered Senior Member

    I like to think of it this way:

    You're capable of believing that

    1. God is infinite
    2. God has always existed
    3. God has no creator

    Just substitute God for another thing we don't know everything about, the universe, and there you go:

    1. The universe is infinite
    2. The universe has always existed
    3. The universe has no creator

    If you can believe one thing, the other shouldn't be so hard. Note that in this particular post, I'm not advocating one view over another. Just pointing out that believing either or requires the same basic thought process.
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  5. EmptyForceOfChi Banned Banned

    1. The universe is infinite
    2. The universe has always existed

    i have always believed this,

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  7. PsychoticEpisode It is very dry in here today Valued Senior Member

    Then it had no creator. Yes only the first two tenets are necessary.
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2007
  8. mybreathyourlung Registered Senior Member

    Your example makes for a good point, but it's not quite accurate as it doesn't work with all examples. You can substitue anything in place, for example something I don't know ANYTHING about:

    1. Engines are infinite
    2. Engines have always existed
    3. Engines have no creator

    Obviously, none of these are true. Granted, with something much more ambiguious and large-scale such as the Universe it makes it much more manageable as an example, but still.

    To comment on the original post, about the part saying "Some say God created Sin and so he is a malecious (sp) God. Is it possible for God to be certain things and everything outside of his being is something else."

    I think it's clear that God did in fact create sin. To hypothosize that something came into this world without God's interaction destorys the entire validity of an omnipotent being. If sin entered the world not as a creation by God, then what else did? It would be then possible to say that perhaps something entered our "world" that in turn created God. That "God's God" had a God, and so forth. God (as I understand it) is beyond everything. Time, space, dimention and all that junk. I personally find it easy to understand what our Universe was like before God created it. Simply: nothing.
  9. scorpius a realist Valued Senior Member

    not realy
    maybe it was always moving
    BB created only our visible universe,the whole universe is unknown, as yet.
    it most likely goes on for infinity,its endless.

    the matter/energy always existed,would be my guess since it cant be destroyed nor created.
    humans created gods,... looky here
  10. Wisdom_Seeker Speaker of my truth Valued Senior Member

    I also have always believed this.

    But it also rises the questions:
    - Multi-Universe?
    - Does God = Universe?

    I guess this we will never know for sure.
  11. mybreathyourlung Registered Senior Member

    I understand thats personal viewpoint and opinion, but I have a hard time just accepting the fact that every unimagineable aspect of our lives, Universe and everything in between is here and working simply out of pure luck. Thinking differently is just a case of denial.

    Newtons law of Intertia: An object moving at constant speed will keep moving at constant speed, unless acted upon by an unbalanced force. An object at rest will remain at rest unless a force is exerted upon it. Everything in our Universe could not have been somehow created and then expanded without something acting against it. Things simply are not in motion, just cuz.

    True, but even so, it will be 100% impossible to ever know where all of the matter and energy in our Universe came from, and to know what caused all of this to enter our Universe, and what begat that, and begat that, etc... as it quite obviously, and simply, HAD to've come from someplace. I understand that hypothetically, there very well could be aspects of our Universe we will never know, so it could be possible that energy and matter DOES just appear in space and expand without reason, but I personally have to go with what makes more sense, and really, the idea of an omnipotent creator makes more sense than energy just appearing out of nowhere without a cause.

    What example do you have that energy/matter cannot be created nor destroyed? That one does make sense but I'd like to read more. If so, that would be a pretty valid point.
  12. sandy Banned Banned

    God is the great "I am." He always was and always will be. He created man (Adam and Eve) with free will. They chose to disobey him and sin. He gave them everything they wanted and they still sinned. (Man is like that.)

    Man did create false gods. No one created THE God.

    God created the earth. It was His idea.

    No one can prove God exists or how the earth began. He just does.
  13. KennyJC Registered Senior Member

    It's amazing how confidently religious folk spout their invented drivel.
  14. sandy Banned Banned

    What's even more amazing is how you can deeply, viciously attack someone's personal convictions/beliefs. Were I to call your deep, personal passion/belief in science "drivel" I would be infracted into oblivion on the science threads.

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    And even more amazing than that is how anyone can NOT believe in God.

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

    We "spout" confidently because we KNOW what we say/think/believe about Him is true. It's His word. He said it first. In fact, he "invented" it.

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  15. Smellsniffsniff Gravitomagnetism Heats the Sun Registered Senior Member

    In the beginning, god took himself and created the universe. He is no more an infinite dimensional dot, and eventually he will only be a timeline with a 2d dot on it, and both are conscious in relation to eachother, and when the infinity has passed which it never does the timeline will be empty and colapse into a zerodimensional dot, and zero being the length of the timeline when the universe when it started, this is the beginning of the universe yet again, and soon after that it became an infinite dimensional dot with no length in any direction only beginning and end, ones again.

    This allready given that everything is equally ignorant to any others and conscious in every part. The infinite dimensional dot was one part that broke into pieces, it must have known all things.
  16. nova900 more spirituality,less dogma Registered Senior Member

    I agree that God exists ,but the biblical God Yahweh was also one of many,many Gods/Goddesses created by man. Yahweh was simply one interpretation of God created by man.

    A little early history of the ancient hebrews... do you realize they were a polytheistic society before the priesthood selected Yahweh to be their "one true God".
  17. Wisdom_Seeker Speaker of my truth Valued Senior Member

    Well,the monotheistic religion was born, according to the Bible, with Abraham. But Abraham´s character has many similarities with the Persian Zarathustra (Ibrahim Zoroaster). Zarathustra laid down the bases for the first monotheistic religion ever. And I think Zarathustra and Abraham are based in the same person.
  18. Wisdom_Seeker Speaker of my truth Valued Senior Member

  19. geeser Atheism:is non-prophet making Valued Senior Member

    and how did A&E manage to disobey, and sin?, please think about your answer before replying, thank you.
    and you know this how, people once believed in Gaia, the earth mother, she's still popular.
    how is she the made up one, and yours not, think about your answer before replying please.
    was it and you know this how.
    could it not have been Atum? think about your answer please before replying.
    no one can prove any god exists or doesn't, so which one is the creator if any?. think about your answer before replying.
  20. mybreathyourlung Registered Senior Member

    And it's amazing how naive someone can sound when they put it all so "matter-of-factly".
  21. geeser Atheism:is non-prophet making Valued Senior Member

    yes you've hit the nail on the head, that is exactly how the religious sound, their naivety knows no bounds, they so believe it's all fact, yet there beliefs are million miles away from the facts, they all totally in cloud cockooland.
  22. Wisdom_Seeker Speaker of my truth Valued Senior Member

    Keep saying that, maybe if you say it enough, you will believe what you are saying.
    I think some atheists keep comming to Religion forum just to say that "God doesn´t exist" and "theists are delusional". But why do you guys do that? If you would really don´t care about this stuff, then just let it be.
    But you are not conscient of the fact that you need to say that stuff in order to hear others agree with you, and feel better. Cause you feel that "something" is out there, but no definition of God makes sence to you.
    You feel that "something" is missing don´t you?
    You cannot fool me.

    Guess what, God cannot be defined or described, so nobody can prove you wrong, happy now?
  23. ntgr Registered Senior Member

    Dear Seeker, I don't believe in any kind of God and I assure you everything is in its place and nothing missing. You and everyone else, on the other hand can believe anything you choose to, and that's fine.
    How come you are so sure you can't be fooled?

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