In reality

Discussion in 'General Philosophy' started by Cyperium, Aug 17, 2006.

  1. perplexity Banned Banned

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    I recognise that.

    I have seen it happen at times of crisis, the vulnerability to suggestion, and experienced it myself.

    It also happens with relationships, when a woman rejected by a man she loved runs off hand in hand with the first thing that comes along, like a new born duckling follows the first thing that moves in the hope of it being the mother.

    --- Ron.
     
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  3. wesmorris Nerd Overlord - we(s):1 of N Valued Senior Member

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    Yes but can you find peace in the incomprehensible?

    Perhaps this is the ultimate spiritual challenge eh? Shit I dunno, but I'm okay with not knowing!

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    Last edited: Sep 19, 2006
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  5. c7ityi_ Registered Senior Member

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    Reality is imagination.
     
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  7. locomotive Tea me o' mighty teapot Registered Senior Member

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    you were experiencing a feeling?
     
  8. Cyperium I'm always me Valued Senior Member

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    No it's not concentration. There is two forms of concentration, one is when you don't have to struggle with it, you have focus anyway, you may call it "light concentration", then there is this concentration that you have to struggle to get, where you have to focus really hard, this may be called "heavy concentration".

    What I experiance is more similiar to "light concentration" since I don't have to struggle to experiance it, rather I have to let go and just see reality (not on a regular basis though, but it comes when you are in certain situations, even though it's there all along).

    I think a part of this feeling is the sensation you get when you are philosophical and look at stars in the sky.
     
  9. water the sea Registered Senior Member

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    Then that is more like zoning out. It can feel like a very refined state of consciousness.
     
  10. nicholas1M7 Banned Banned

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    Do you believe that perception is possibly the one thing that determines behavior? It involves the mind, body, and their perceptions of stimuli. This in turn makes us decide how to respond.
     
  11. (Q) Encephaloid Martini Valued Senior Member

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    Hi water, nice to see ya back!
     
  12. Ogmios Must. learn. to. punctuate! Registered Senior Member

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    Oh, I'VE never felt that, of course

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    It's just my explanation to the fear, or why people are not as good as me

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    I've always sorta looked reality in the eye and dare it to come over here and do something. So I don't get the sorta world-crumbling-away, more like the constant fear of messing something up. I don't build my castles on no beaches, where they might crumble.. (Thanks anyway)

    And, uh, umm, I was refering to some more conscious existential problems. Like "understanding how the world works". Not like "Conscious of my consciousness", that doesn't really become urgent untill you've answered the lower strata of the world.

    Normal, simple survival horror. "how will I live!?" It's like being in a room with several spinning and flying objects; If you can't figure out where they go and when, you'll eventually get hit. Or just how to get your food. And so forth. If you don't know how the world works, you'll make it angry and get killed. If you realize all you know is wrong, you despair (it is distinguished from fear or panic etc). I think babies cry because they don't understand what's going on. Or at least crying is associated to despair. (If you're JUST sad, you're just sad. But things like that also raises other questions (like mortality, or how will I survive without him/her/it..)).

    But some people will just make do with an illusion of safety instead of actually learning how the world works. I think some buddhist said it best with "There is no shelter except for Enlightnment", but I forget stuff. The despair just hounds you until you turn around and admit you're a fool. Then follows a time of learning, possibly stressful or painful, but after that follows the REAL freedom and peace, when the mind is calm of all things.

    I think some other buddhist said that we should concentrate on "nothing". Which means not to concentrate, sure, but to be focused about it. Not to focus but to see all. Any help?
     
  13. Cyperium I'm always me Valued Senior Member

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    Any feeling is more than a feeling for the subjected.
     
  14. Cyperium I'm always me Valued Senior Member

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    One time when I "zoned out" at the stars they appeared three dimensional.

    That isn't the feeling I get though, simply observing reality for what it is described it best. Fullfilling the need for meaning. Without any interfering feelings (if you had any they would be romanticised and your focus will be at them instead), staying "online" will give this sensation I talked about, where reality itself bears a kind of silent meaning.
     
  15. Cyperium I'm always me Valued Senior Member

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    Reality has a place for imagination, and reality has a place in imagination.
     
  16. Cyperium I'm always me Valued Senior Member

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  17. heliocentric Registered Senior Member

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    I like this thread, i like where its going.
    Ive had these kinds of feelings too, i think these feelings arrise when youre most in sync with your environment. I believe these hard-to-explain feelings are our ancient prehistoric way of thinking, its visceral thought that plugs you straight into whats going on.
    Some of the most profound thoughts ive ever had have come to me via an incredibly strange feeling, which at the time feels like youve just experienced a new colour.
    Feelings <3
     
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2006
  18. Ogmios Must. learn. to. punctuate! Registered Senior Member

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    Eh, it contains a witty mind-game I thought you might catch (as it sounds stupid explained..). You see to concentrate on something is to focus somewhere. To concentrate on nothing is to not foucs, but to broaden your mind. Ah-HA! I mean you can't really concentrate on NOTHING. When you don't concentrate your mind, it's free to think whatever it wills without the ego telling it what it can and can't think of. It's one of those things..

    Seems to me illogical or unnecessary (Sorry

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    ). It's more, like the more you know, the safer you are. The less you know, the worse you'll survive. Even if we have solved hunger and predators, the same drive drives us, to know even more. I think some people might be ready to just sit down, if everyone else just would, but some of us persist in knowing EVERYTHING. To gain ultimate power.

    Also, clergy and rulers and all other types of people keep telling that those that are not pure, will not survive. "Deadly sins" for example. Seek power or glory or enlightnment or be destroyed. They are right, of course. Having solved natural problems we now face a world we might just destroy through neglectence. Wars etc. We are SAFE, but we tend to endanger ourselves. "If I'm not useful to the society it will throw me away!" It's the same fear.

    New fear, to me, is the Cthulu kind of fear. Something that should not be is. This clearly proves that all we know is nothing and we are in the same danger we were yesterday.

    Kind of like... Imagine yourself in a jungle. You know the paths and patterns of predators and preys, and can survive. You have shelter and furs to survive. Everything is A-OK.

    Then some predator (like a lion) meets you totally outside his territory, or in the wrong phase of day. This totally questions your view of world; If this is possible, maybe all I knew for certain was wrong. Maybe I was not safe at all, and the world changed. Caught unprepared you die instantly (for some unknown reason

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    ).

    As long as you understand how world really works, you can prepare for every change and hence survive. But if you're wrong, a sudden change (like the climate suddenly going ping-pong) could kill you. This is the strongest fear; that all our preparations were for naught, as in reality you were WRONG. Instant death by the unknown.

    This here explains why people hate change, and anything which proves what they already know as wrong. The big mistake is, of course, to bury your head deeper in the sand. But it makes the fear disappear, so they're happy.

    And also explains why everybody (like the chinise and the romans and the indians) seeks the unchanging, the eternal and the immortal. "The one true thing that never changes" is present in every religion in the world (I exagerate, of course..).

    Well, no in the context spoken. But while I myself have foolishly harboured all my thoughts, it's usually easier to discover your faults by letting others laugh at them. To speak your mind is a fast way to shape them. Of course, one must maintain a sense of self or ego, to make your own mind, as to avoid any slave-like herd-minding. Unnecessary but useful, as long as you remember what your own voice sounds like. (And why do anything the easy way..)

    Emotions are the quick-reference of the mind. Think with words and be slow but sure. Think with thoughts and be quick but closed. Think with emotions and be so quick you'll go the wrong way, backtrace and still have enough time to overtake anyone else in the room.
     
  19. Cyperium I'm always me Valued Senior Member

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    I see what you mean

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    , I caught the mind-game (though what is interesting is that they think they are approaching 'nothing' and hence what they think is 'enlightment' while instead they are clogging up the light, and approaching ignorance (of the world around them).

    To not think, is to gather.
    To think is to solve what is gathered.

    To not think, and focus, is to find what you want to gather.
    To think, and focus, is to find what you want to solve.

    This applies only to the context which it is in, of course thoughts can be used for alot of other things.


    Therefor if one wants enlightment from 'nothing', then they have to solve a great many impulses, which if successfull still leaves them with the thought itself.

    There is a balance here of course, the thoughts have a limit to their density, so at any time you haven't lost anything, still haven't got anything more.

    The way in which we have to search for enlightment is first of all a inner definition in any way of the term enlightment (could be as simply as a imaginary feeling of what it must be like), then you have to want it (if you believe in God, you should pray for it).

    If it is meaningful for you to get enlightment, then you will probably have it (since you search for what is meaningful for you (not necessarily to you though)).







    Perhaps because of the wanted ability to forsee what you need to know? Or just cover all possibilities of the unforseen?

    Hmmm, I guess that without the danger of the world, we have to face the danger from within, and the consequences one might have if being outcast (that is the inner-consequences, cause we all want to feel a part of something, true? What worse than being outcast then?)

    No wonder gangs are so successfull.

    No wonder drugs are so successfull (they share a world of their own).

    The fear of being apart.

    What is it to be part then? Love.

    Society has no wonder.

    It has a back alley of fear and darkness, a staircase of dust leading to vain.

    The glimpses of hope for people in despair comes from people in despair.

    Cause we know that they are thinking of it.

    Maybe we don't know enough, maybe we don't know how to give hope to those that need it while not being in despair ourselves.

    Faults bind people together, cause they search after the people with the same problem, instead of searching after people with the same abilities (to perhaps solve the problem), but no, the blind is leading the blind and they both fall into the pit.

    There are alternatives of course, society is huge, but it's sometimes very hard to find. We must keep trying though, cause there is no other way.


    It's a fear of the instability of oneself. You are afraid to take a look, cause you are afraid of what you can find (even if it was calm), the solution is of course to be calm yourself, only then can you look (otherwise you would not be yourself, and be scared out of your bones).

    There is of course the hope of having a stability outside of oneself, a stability to help you if you fall. Something that never change, and is eternal and immortal. So that you never get lost again.




    I understand what you mean, with understanding and friendly people that is a preffered method.
     
  20. Ogmios Must. learn. to. punctuate! Registered Senior Member

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    So glad we agree.

    Wow. Smart.

    As consequence, so many people these days say love cures everything, and tells to love everything. I think this is rather counter-productive; If you love faults, others don't know what to change. And with that thought..
    To my experience, friendly people tend to support who you are, and what you think, instead of truthfully baring all things wrong with you. Which is nice, as some support at the hardest game is prefered.

    But "the only way to get smarter is to play the smarter opponent". All wars (well, "all"..) are a result of trying to sculpt other people of their faults. Hostility and fighting are often more useful in the pursuit of perfection; People who disagree with you propably know something you don't. To fight is stupid, but it is the simplest and an option always available.
     
  21. Cyperium I'm always me Valued Senior Member

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    Me too.


    Thank you. (takes one to see one)


    Yes, we shouldn't love faults, rather accept the ones that we can't change.

    There is a prayer that goes like this (free translation):

    "Give me peace of mind to accept what I cannot change, courage to change what I can, and understanding to know the difference."



    Which is what a friend should, however, a friend should also point out something in a friendly way that they perceive can be bad for you (which to my experiance, most people do, some may show it in less obvious ways as they may have trouble saying it directly, which might be good, and might be bad, if you have a problem that you haven't noticed yourself, then you want at least a sign of it so you can change, however, if the signs are subtle in a way that make you suspect they are talking about you behind your back, then they are doing it the wrong way (it should never have to come to that if you have nice friends). Though, if the signs are subtle in a way that tells you "I want you to deal with this, but I don't want/dare to confront you with it", (some are afraid of confrontations, and some might just want to tell it to you without risking hurting you), then I think it is nice, even preffered, much depending on the persons involved, including what kind of person you are (if you are easily triggered, then people will probably go for the subtle way, if any...).





    I don't entirely agree with this. There are situations when fighting (logically or physically) is unavoidable, but in other situations I think it is best to pursue other ways of knowing things, like, for example, talking about what he thinks about things, this person that disagree with you, things that perhaps matters to the subject he disagrees to, so as to find why your views are different. I mean, to my experiance, fighting CAN lead to knowledge, but what I get from peacefully pursuing a "truth" or a knowledge, is much more and better (as it isn't stained with remorce or self-satisfaction).
     

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