In light of the FBI's having examined whether Trump is a Russian asset, do you think he is?

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Xelor, Jan 12, 2019 at 1:26 PM.

  1. Xelor Registered Senior Member

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    In light of the FBI's having examined whether Trump is a Russian asset, do you think he is?

    I damn sure do, but then I've long held that thought in the back of my mind. I became pretty much hewed to it when Trump, standing right next to Putin in Helsinki, announced to the world that he believed Putin's word more so than the USIC's.
     
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  3. geordief Registered Senior Member

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    Perhaps he knows that the USIC cannot be both his friend and honorable at the same time.

    They cannot look away from his seeming stupidity/disloyalty despite the "undisputed" fact that he won the election and is now POTUS.

    If he could muzzle the USIC and the courts is he not likely to do it?

    The restraints that are still in place are all that protects America and the rest of us from the vision of an authoritarian.

    That and his clumsy choice of allies (Russian interests)
     
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  5. RainbowSingularity Valued Senior Member

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    "is the US president a Russian spy" ?

    that is your question ?

    highly unlikely would be my answer.

    Trump is the Cowboy president, shoots from the hip
    many american voters love that.
    it makes them feel empowered. they feel like they have a voice which they lost to the globalisation machine that outsourced their jobs and perceived sense of values.

    putin is what some western cultures call "a mans man"
    meaning he is quite strong in masculine traites and has a tendency to sit to the right hand side of perceived western gender stereo types.
    it makes perfect sense that Trump would look to ally himself with the russian president because the image of personality of macho-ism suites the style by which he maintains his leadership of voters.

    turning that into a spy story makes great press and keeps the media channels responding.

    conversely so
    a satirical comedic quip would be something like
    "the spy who played with Russian dolls" abstract from Austin-Powers "the spy who shagged me" abstract from James Bond "The Spy who loved me".

    makes great headlines
    Cowboys are interested in 3 things
    freedom
    women
    money

    take your pick in which ever order but all 3 tend to be a single package.

    not forgetting that the Republican party accepted and chose him as their leader when they could have refused.
    the Republican Party are equally to blame/accountable for every thing he does as President.
    However... that is not consistent with some american new-age values of avoiding being accountable for decisions.
     
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  7. Capracus Valued Senior Member

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    He’s a useful idiot, and in a country populated with associated useful idiots, he presents as a valuable asset to the Russians.
     
  8. Seattle Valued Senior Member

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    He seems to be, at the least, a Russian asset whether he is aware of it or not. He acts as if he were one.
     
  9. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    If he isn't at least an unwitting asset, Putin missed a golden opportunity.

    The blackmail potential of the Moscow Tower deal alone - never mind the decades of laundering Russian "oligarch" money through his real estate, and the fact that nobody but the Russians would front him a nickel after the way he screwed lenders - put obvious levers in Putin's mitts.

    I doubt Putin misses very many golden opportunities.
     
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  10. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    He is a Russian asset - easily manipulated, easily cowed. He's not a Russian spy.
     
  11. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    Define "spy".
    Do you think there is anything, anything at all, Trump would not tell Putin? Are you sure?
     
  12. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    He is not regularly reporting confidential information to handlers in Russia.
    Oh, Putin (or an agent of his) could no doubt ferret some tidbits out of Trump; Trump isn't all that smart. But that's true of many US government leaders.
     
  13. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    But he may very well be doing so irregularly - as opportunity affords.

    That would explain some puzzling features of his behavior at various "summits" and meetings, his choices of cabinet officials and other close associates with "backchannel" connections and known corruptions, and some odd features of his public utterances.

    It's not just theoretically possible, in other words - there is some indication of its happening.
     
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  14. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member

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    Just to add...
    Trump is a person who suffers narcissist personality disorder, and while he has seemingly improved over time (his narcissistic rants have reduced slightly) being as he is makes him very easy to manipulate, especially by someone as skilled as Putin of the FSB.
    The FSB ( Putin ) would never miss an opportunity like the one Trump presented and even now still presents. IMO

    This is why mentally ill people should never be given the presidency. Vulnerability to manipulation by close friends and enemies would be a national security issue.
     
  15. Xelor Registered Senior Member

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    • Why must his handler be in Russia?
    • What makes him be not "regularly reporting information?"
      • I doubt he picks up the phone and calls Putin or some other Russian, but that isn't the only way information can be communicated. There are myriad ways for him to do so, for example:
        • Some sort of tweet code he agreed during his private meeting w/Putin. (Putin was, after all, a KBG operative.)
        • Allowing his phone to be hacked so it's essentially a microphone.
        • Communicating with another asset who functions as a conduit
     
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2019 at 10:15 AM
  16. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    Well, if his handler was in China, he'd be a Chinese spy, not a Russian spy.
    Those all require more intelligence than Trump has thus far exhibited.
     
  17. gmilam Valued Senior Member

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    Trump is too arrogant to think he needs help from Russia. And he's too ignorant to realize that he's a tool. Meanwhile, Putin understands how to manipulates Trump's greed for power and wealth.
     
  18. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    He would accept the help as the right behavior of a loyal brother/investor.
    He is sensitive to threat of all kinds - he has very high "emotional intelligence" of the kind important for bullying and manipulation. So he can be blackmailed in fairly sophisticated ways.
    He would see no contradiction in the roles of "loyal friend" and "blackmailing manipulator" - that's how human beings form relationships, in his world. "Tool and be tooled" - how the world works.
    He did not gain the Presidency by accident. And he did not gain it by being the beneficiary of some intersections of power and interest, getting a lot of protection and boost from the real experts - you can count the powerful and elite who wanted Trump to be President on one hand.

    He got it by being much better at media manipulation than the so-called pros and smart guys. He handed the intellectual establishment and conventional wisdom of the world's most sophisticated media empire its collective ass.
     
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2019 at 6:59 PM
  19. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    Don't confuse intelligence and ability to perform. Those are two very different things.
     
  20. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    Trump handed the intellectual establishment and conventional wisdom of the world's most sophisticated media empire its collective ass. Underestimate the abilities involved in doing that at your peril.
     
  21. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    Oh, I'm not underestimating the _abilities_ - just the intelligence. There have been plenty of very successful - and very stupid - people.
     
  22. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Staff Member

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    In truth, my question is how many other people are. That there was even a joke about former Rep. Dana Rohrabacher (R-CA48), for instance, was kind of problematic, and he kind of tripled down toward the end. People are making jokes and other manners of speculation about Sen. Lindsey Graham (R-SC). Nobody has been quite certain what to make of Rep. Devin Nunes (R-CA22). It's hard enough figuring out what was up with most of Trump's cabinet, but Secretary Pompeo's help raising eyebrows by rattling against the U.S. as he did can also be written up to the manner of excremental character the Republican Party breeds for politics, these days.

    And that's the problem. It would be funny if they had hooks in McConnell, because they wouldn't really need them; he's just that awful. Pence, too, and even more so because conspiracies are hard to keep, especially as they grow, and the Vice President is not, by any political measure, very bright.

    The bottom-line question is how many people need to tank what in order to hold which part of a conspiracy buttoned down for how long.

    Still, if I suggest there is a difference between this definition of asset and what Donald Trump or any other businessperson might mean when trying to present themselves and their brands as assets to customers or working partners, I cannot promise that Donald Trump understands that difference. It is entirely possible the President is a witting Russian asset because he does not comprehend what that means.
     
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  23. Jeeves Valued Senior Member

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    Not anymore, though he may think so. As for supplying information, Trump knows far less about American interests and activities than Putin does - or Mohammad Bin Rashid, or Danny Danon (In fairness, few people know as much as that guy about America's secrets).
    He's already served his limited purpose: to disrupt the US political process, waste resources on useless projects, wreck one of the major parties and keep the other one busy reacting to distractions, threaten if not badly damage the fabric of the union, engage China in a protracted trade-war, leaving the third-world opportunities unguarded, and nudge forward-looking industries abroad, while bolstering the ones with no future.
    I doubt they'd let him win a second time, unless they have something to gain from another US civil war. I suspect they'll be looking at someone more stable to do business with.
     

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