In defence of space aliens

Discussion in 'UFOs, Ghosts and Monsters' started by Magical Realist, Oct 10, 2017.

  1. Gawdzilla Sama Valued Senior Member

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    Yeah, he exceeded the performance curve for his plane and pranged it. Not really a mystery.
     
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  3. sweetpea Valued Senior Member

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    Cut & Paste www.ufotruthmagazine.co.uk/famous-ufo-quotes/
     
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  5. Magical Realist Valued Senior Member

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    Meh....
     
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  7. sweetpea Valued Senior Member

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    Just another straight Cut & Paste.
    If this is not you saying the following, then where are the quotes marks? Because it comes from www.ufotruthmagazine.co.uk/famous-ufo-quotes/

    Captain Thomas Mantell, USAF. These were his last words as he closed in on a UFO in 1948. Minutes later his plane was to crash and he was to lose his life.

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    Hence just another straight Cut & Paste with no comment from you.
     
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2018
  8. Magical Realist Valued Senior Member

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    "Meh"...
     
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2018
  9. sweetpea Valued Senior Member

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    ''Cut & Paste''
     
  10. Gawdzilla Sama Valued Senior Member

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    The aliens should dock MR's pay, for lack of effort.
     
  11. Bells Staff Member

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    Reality:

    However, later investigation by the United States Air Force's Project Blue Book indicated that Mantell may have died chasing a Skyhook balloon, which in 1948 was a top-secret project that Mantell would not have known about

    [...]

    Having rejected the Venus explanation, Captain Ruppelt began to research other explanations for the incident. He was particularly interested in a suggestion by Dr. Hynek that Mantell could have misidentified a United States NavySkyhook[19]weather balloon. Others disputed this idea, noting that no particular Skyhook balloon could be conclusively identified as being in the area in question during Mantell's pursuit. Despite this objection, Ruppelt thought the Skyhook explanation was plausible: the balloons were a secret Navy project at the time of Mantell's crash, were made of reflective aluminum, and were about 100 feet (30 m) in diameter, consistent with the description of the UFO as large, metallic, and cone-shaped. Since the Skyhook balloons were secret at the time, neither Mantell nor the other observers in the air control tower would have been able to identify the UFO as a Skyhook. Furthermore, later research by Project Blue Book and UFO skeptics revealed that multiple Skyhook balloons had been launched on 7 January 1948 in Clinton County, Ohio, approximately 150 miles (240 km) northeast of Fort Knox.[2] UFO skeptic Philip J. Klass argued that wind currents at the time would have blown the balloons close to the area of the Mantell Incident. Additionally, when Captain Ruppelt investigated the case in 1952, he found that at least two observers in separate locations had reported viewing an object through a telescope close to the time and location of the incident, and both observers stated that it was a large balloon.


    You are attempting to imply that he crashed because of the UFO, as though the "UFO" did something to his plane. That is how your quote comes across and it is very misleading. He crashed because he passed out:

    Only one of Mantell's wingmen, Lt. Albert Clements, had an oxygen mask, and his oxygen was in low supply. Clements and the third pilot, Lt. Hammond, called off their pursuit at 22,500 feet (6,900 m). Mantell continued to climb, however. According to the Air Force, once Mantell passed 25,000 feet (7,600 m) he blacked out from the lack of oxygen (hypoxia), and his plane began spiraling back towards the ground. A witness later reported Mantell's Mustang in a circling descent. His plane crashed on a farm south of Franklin, Kentucky, on the Kentucky–Tennessee state line.​
     
  12. Magical Realist Valued Senior Member

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    Sounds feasible. Thanks for the research,..,

    Here is a really detailed report on this case by NICAP:

    http://www.nicap.org/docs/mantell/analysis_mantell_randle.pdf
     
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2018
  13. Bells Staff Member

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    What is troubling is that you did not bother to even google it first before posting that quote.

    And that's the issue. You posted a very misleading quote and made it seem as though he went too close to a UFO and essentially crashed. And that was not what happened at all. He crashed because he flew his plane too high and lost consciousness due to lack of oxygen.

    Secondly, it took me all of 10 seconds to find the information about the skyhook research they were secretly conducting at the time.

    My advice, before you post quotes like that that essentially convey something completely different, please google it first. And please apply the context correctly.

    What happened to Mantell is a tragedy. The Government's secrecy and their refusal to warn pilots and air traffic controllers of their secret research led to a man's horrific death. And they essentially got away with it. They knowingly allowed conspiracy theories to take off about Mantell's death. The cost and trauma to his family, his fellow pilots and those who witnessed his death would have been immense.

    When the CIA boast about such research, they leave out the fact that their refusal to warn pilots and others about launching these balloons led to a man dying.

    It should be rage inducing. But not because of "UFO's", but because the Government essentially tried to cover it up to protect their research and allowed the conspiracies about UFO's to continue.
     
  14. Gawdzilla Sama Valued Senior Member

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    You assume that had Mantel known about the balloons he wouldn't have chased the UFO?
     
  15. Bells Staff Member

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    More likely not. They saw something shiny and metallic and big and set to chase it. The balloon was rising or quite high up by the sounds of things. He pushed on despite having low oxygen in the tank, while the other pilots pulled back for the same reason. He climbed too high, ran out of oxygen and passed out cold.

    The CIA knew that their balloons were there at the time. They literally fed a conspiracy theory to protect their secret. Realistically, they should have informed air force pilots and airlines, not to mention air traffic control of the tests they were doing because of the danger they could have posed to air traffic. They did not And it is ridiculous to assume that they were not also monitoring air traffic radio during that time and they still remained silent when those pilots took off after that balloon. I doubt any pilot would have risked their lives and that of others to give chase to it if they were informed about the balloons being launched in that area.
     
  16. Gawdzilla Sama Valued Senior Member

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    Thanks, I was wondering because weather balloons are routine around air bases, the meteorological people are expected to report conditions at various altitude. If Mantell hadn't seen a weather balloon before it must have been his first day in a cockpit. I suspect he talked himself out of accepting it as a balloon. We'll never know, of course.
     
  17. Bells Staff Member

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    The balloon was not a weather balloon. It was referred to as a "Skyhook". It essentially looked like a giant metal sphere in the sky. Did you not read any of the links provided?

    The US Government were conducting secret tests at the time and did not inform the local air force base (or army bases for that matter) or any air traffic controllers about their tests.

    Mantell was never made aware of the Skyhook balloons and would not have seen one. Nor would any of the other pilots in his squadron, or the various air force and army bases that reported seeing a large metallic object rising in the sky. By the time it reached that altitude, it would have been a 30m metal sphere.

    It was observed from the ground by air traffic controllers looking through binoculars at various bases across a large area and they sent those pilots in to investigate. The balloon was climbing fast and had climbed high enough at that point that the air force pilots had to chase it up in a fairly steep climb. The other pilots pulled back due to low oxygen levels. Mantell pushed on and 'chased' it. He could not see it clearly, just a shiny metal object moving away from him. He then passed out due to lack of oxygen and crashed.

    Observers on the ground, looking at the object with a telescope were the ones who identified it as a large balloon. But no one told any of the army or air force bases that these were in fact balloons.

    But here is what makes this case infuriating and even more tragic:

    Firemen later pulled Mantell's body from the Mustang's wreckage. His seat belt was shredded, and his wristwatch had stopped at 3:18 p.m., the time of his crash. Meanwhile, by 3:50 p.m. the UFO was no longer visible to observers at Godman Army Airfield.[8] The Mantell incident was reported by newspapers around the nation, and received significant news media attention. A number of sensational rumors were also circulated about Mantell's crash. According to UFO historian Curtis Peebles, among the rumors were claims that "the flying saucer was a Soviet missile; it was [an alien] spacecraft that shot down [Mantell's fighter] when it got too close; Captain Mantell's body was found riddled with bullets; the body was missing; the plane had completely disintegrated in the air; [and] the wreckage was radioactive."[9] However, no evidence has ever surfaced to substantiate any of these claims, and Air Force investigation specifically refuted some claims, such as the supposedly radioactive wreckage.[9] Captain Ruppelt wrote that "I had always heard a lot of wild speculation about the condition of Mantell's crashed F-51, so I wired for a copy of the accident report. [It] said that...Mantell's body had not burned, not disintegrated, and was not full of holes; the wreck was not radioactive, nor was it magnetized."

    At no time did the CIA or the Government inform that what he had seen was a Skyhook balloon.
     
  18. Magical Realist Valued Senior Member

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    This is some footage showing the general idea behind Operation Skyhook..

     
  19. Gawdzilla Sama Valued Senior Member

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    Did you read what I posted?
     
  20. Michael 345 Bali tonight Valued Senior Member

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    All 4 clippings from the Northern Territory News newspaper 14/6/18

    What more proof do you need?

    I don't think that Government is secretly testing stealth craft just to steal ducks

    Has to be aliens who don't like chicken or have religious objections about bacon

    Who says life is dull in the NT?
     
  21. sideshowbob Sorry, wrong number. Valued Senior Member

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    If I was an alien I'd conclude that ducks are the highest form of life on earth. They're all-terrain - air, sea and land (sort of). They spend all of their time swimming and eating. They have enough sense to fly south for the winter.
     
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  22. Magical Realist Valued Senior Member

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    Even in terms of normal unexplained ufo sightings, this ranks as one of the weirdest. What the hell was it? A real ufo? A top secret military craft? The military denies everything as usual. It remains a mystery to this day..It's a shame the women and the boy who suffered terribly from this encounter lost their lawsuit against the U.S. military. They really deserved some compensation.



    For extra background information and analysis, refer here:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cash-Landrum_incident

    Skeptical ufologist Peter Brookesmith wrote:

    "To ufologists, the case is perhaps the most baffling and frustrating of modern times, for what started with solid evidence for a notoriously elusive phenomenon petered out in a maze of dead ends, denials, and perhaps even official deviousness."
     
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2018
  23. Gawdzilla Sama Valued Senior Member

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    Wow, they couldn't prove their case. Didn't see that coming. (2 sentences.)
     

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