In defence of space aliens

Discussion in 'UFOs, Ghosts and Monsters' started by Magical Realist, Oct 10, 2017.

  1. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

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    There's nothing derogatory there.
    I'd be delighted to chat with Mr Fravor about his experience. It would be interesting and I'm sure he'd be able to have a civil conversation, unlike some.
    Most of that thread consists of UFO True Believers insulting West. It's no surprise you sympathise with their modus operandi.
     
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  3. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

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    Given the vast number of planets in our galaxy alone (it seems very likely that almost every star you see in the sky has planets), it is not implausible that intelligent alien life could exist elsewhere. It is likely, though, that the average distances between intelligent civilisations in our galaxy will be large - on the order of at least hundreds of light years.

    If faster-than-light travel is impossible, then travel from one civilisation to another will take a very long time and be heavily resource-intensive. Which is not to say that it is impossible. On the other hand, if FTL travel is possible by some means (warp drive?) then it might still be very expensive to travel from there to here. Which, again, is not to say that it would be impossible.

    Arthur C. Clarke made the point, years ago, that "any sufficiently advanced technology will be indistinguishable from magic". We can't know what future technological advances might bring, so it is possible that there are advanced alien civilisations that could make the trip if they were sufficiently motivated to do so. But if FTL travel over great distances is easy, we should wonder why we aren't being visited far more regularly than the UFO brigade alleges.

    Supposing that advanced aliens did want to visit our little planet, the next question is: why would they want to hide from us?

    I know that if I had access to easy FTL travel, and knowledge that there were intelligent alien civilisations out there in the galaxy, I would want to go and meet the locals, provided that I had ascertained that they were peaceful or at least not a threat to human life on Earth. If I had obvious technological superiority, such that my spaceship could outperform any local alien vehicles with ease, what harm could possibly come to me from widely broadcasting my arrival on the alien home planet? I would be landing in a prominent place and asking the locals to "take me to your leader".
     
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2021
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  5. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

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    That is totally disingenuous, of course.

    There are also literally thousands of reports of religious miracles over a stretch much longer than 70 years, but you don't believe in those. Why not?

    There are literally thousands of reports of all kinds of things that never actually happened. Turn on your TV. You won't have to watch for long to find an example.

    And that bit you tried, about "axiomatic" denial? That's just plain dishonest. Shame on you!
     
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2021
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  7. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

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    It would be very rare, I think, to build an entire case on the unsupported claims of one eyewitness. It might be possible to build a case based on several independent eyewitnesses, but even that would be difficult.

    People tell lies in court all the time. If "eyewitnesses" were always truthful, there would be no need to have a crime of perjury on the books.

    Even if an eyewitness is telling the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, that will be the "truth" according to his or her best recollection, seen through that person's perspectives and abilities to accurate perceive the relevant facts, and inevitably coloured by that person's biases and misconceptions.

    The idea of allowing witnesses to give evidence in criminal (or any other) trials is to allow their testimony to be tested and challenged, held up to the light of scrutiny in the context of all the other available evidence in the case. It is commonplace in criminal trials for different witnesses to tell conflicting stories about "what happened". In some cases, the debate is about such basic matters as whether the defendant was even present at the scene of the crime.

    What ought to be abundantly clear from the legal example is that eyewitnesses - especially single eyewitnesses - cannot be relied upon to make a case watertight. To get that conviction - or to avoid it - the best kind of evidence is almost never eyewitness evidence.
     
  8. Q-reeus Banned Valued Senior Member

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    How unsurprising. Completely avoid discussing the article itself, which convincingly demonstrates how Mick West 'insults himself'.
    Why therefore wouldn't most commenters be perfectly justified being derisive of his fool 'debunking' effort against both Fravor, and the other three professional, highly trained as observers, aircrew who witnessed the tic tac engagement?
    Two remaining at an elevated independent vantage point. From there well able to corroborate Fravor's closing engagement account. He and the tic tac finishing up on opposite sides of a tight circling maneuver.

    Your silly attempted defense of Mick just blows back in your face. James R truly scraping the bottom of his empty barrel.
     
  9. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

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    As far as I can tell, West put up one hypothesis for discussion. That apparently makes True Believers such as yourself angry. How dare he suggest an alternative explanation!

    You ought to have realised by now that even if this particular idea of West's doesn't stack up, that does nothing at all to advance your claims, or the claims of your UFO buddies.

    Why do you guys spend so much of your time trying to debunk the debunkers, rather than trying to gather evidence to support your own outlanding claims?
    When did I attempt to defend him?
     
  10. Q-reeus Banned Valued Senior Member

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    First line, second sentence of my last post. Support by omission. The rest of your garbage reply there is not worth any comment from me.
     
  11. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

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    As usual, you had no answers to my questions.
     
  12. Magical Realist Valued Senior Member

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    Really? I've not heard of those. There WAS the miracle of Fatima where thousands witnessed the sun dancing, but I don't recall any other cases of eyewitnesses to divine beings. Maybe that's just something you made up in order to dismiss ufo accounts.
     
  13. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

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    You can't have it both ways.

    There are tens of thousands of UFO accounts that have turned out to be false, mistaken, hoaxed or misidentifications.

    So, if you hope that quantity is a sure sign of truth, you've shot yourself in the foot.

    And "maybe" you snack on kittens and snort powdered breast milk.

    WTF kind of argument is 'maybe'??
     
  14. Magical Realist Valued Senior Member

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    Commercial pilots are still seeing and reporting ufos. Here's a case of one pilot flying over New Mexico on 02/21/21 and witnessing a long missile like object flying nearby.

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/suzann...last-weekend-over-new-mexico/?sh=451cf99c49e1

    "...While authorities may never be able to explain what the missile-like object was, it’s not the first time a pilot has spotted unexplained flying phenomena. In fact, it happens fairly regularly.

    A remarkably similar incident occurred over the Sonoran Desert three years ago. On February 24, 2018, within minutes of each other, two pilots flying different aircraft — a Phoenix Air Group Learjet and an American Airlines commercial flight — both reported passing a mysterious object, according to audio recordings released by the Federal Aviation Administration to the Phoenix New Timesseveral weeks later.

    “Was anybody above us that passed us like 30 seconds ago?” the Learjet pilot asked an air traffic controller. “Negative,” replied the tower.

    In November 9, 2018, a British Airways pilot flying over Ireland reported seeing “a very bright light that disappeared at very high speed,” reported The Guardian. A Virgin Airlines pilot confirmed seeing it, too: “Multiple objects following the same sort of trajectory – very bright from where we were.”

    Experts say there is usually a very logical explanation for UFO sightings, and the U.S. government has had a famously long history of being tight-lipped on the subject. In recent years, however, there’s been some notable movement on that front..."

    ..
     
  15. wegs Matter and Pixie Dust Valued Senior Member

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    This thread's title really should read...

    In defense of the defenders of space aliens


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    Last edited: Oct 7, 2021
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  16. Seattle Valued Senior Member

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    The title this whole site should be "Anyone home?"

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  17. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

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    I don't believe you, but I can see why you'd be motivated to lie about this. After all, it does shine a spotlight on your lack of consistency; you're all about confirmation bias.

    For instance, consider the many thousands of people who claim to have been cured by divine miracle, for example following prayer.
     
  18. Magical Realist Valued Senior Member

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    That's not eyewitnesses of God. It has nothing to do with ufo eyewitnesses---real physical objects seen with their own eyes.
     
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2021
  19. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

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    Who are you to decide what they experienced?

    Are you calling them liars? Or just mistaken? (Careful how you answer.)

    Not true, it's an excellent analogy in terms of analysis.

    "I saw a UFO."
    "Yes you did. And no one can tell you different. I trust you utterly."

    "I saw an angel."
    "Bullshit. That's not real."
     
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2021
  20. Magical Realist Valued Senior Member

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    Canadian pilots are reporting ufos. Here's some accounts of those encounters:

    https://www.vice.com/en/article/z3xewj/air-canada-westjet-porter-pilots-ufo-sightings

    "On the morning of May 30, 2016, an Air Canada Express flight from Montreal to Toronto reported it had “crossed an unidentified flying object, round in shape, flying at an approximate speed of 300kts,” or more than 550 km/h. Over 8,000 feet above Lake Ontario on Nov. 14 of that year, two crew members were injured when a Porter Airlines plane dove to avoid hitting an “object” that “appeared to be solid… and shaped like an upright doughnut or inner tube.

    By combing through thousands of reports in a government flight incident database, VICE World News has uncovered dozens of recent UFO sightings from Canadian and international airlines.

    They include a pair of WestJet flights near B.C.’s Okanagan Valley that allegedly saw “a bright, white strobe-type light” above them on the night of March 16, 2017, and a pre-dawn Jan. 10, 2015 encounter outside Regina, Saskatchewan, when “multiple aircraft reported a very large object with a small white light in the middle, surrounded by a halo” that “appeared to descend from above” 41,000 feet.

    The sightings come from the Civil Aviation Daily Occurrence Report System (CADORS), a searchable digital archive operated by Transport Canada, the federal department that oversees road, rail, marine, and air transportation. With over three decades of data, CADORS contains nearly 300,000 aviation incident reports on everything from mechanical failures to rowdy passengers to bird strikes. It also provides a fascinating record of UFO sightings by professional aviators in Canadian airspace.

    “Pilots are probably not reporting about 90 per cent of the things they’re seeing, because they know it could have lengthy career implications,” former Royal Canadian Air Force (RCAF) pilot John “Jock” Williams told VICE World News..."
     
  21. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

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    Notice the way that Magical Realist always tries to move onto something else when he finds that he has no adequate response?
     
  22. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

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    It's laughably predictable.
     
  23. Q-reeus Banned Valued Senior Member

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    What's laughable and simultaneously lamentable, is the all too predictable unreasonableness of the SF 'debunker' brigades demands for 'proof'. Yazata (and myself) has ably fingered that 'proof' word as totally inappropriate given the (from a human perspective anyway) totally random and unpredictable nature of UFO encounters. ALL one has, and all one can have, is circumstantial evidence. Of intelligently controlled phenomena. With whimsical/mischievous motivations imo the consistent hallmark. How many times now has that been presented and predictably ignored or twisted to suit? Lots!
     

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