improvised self-defense chemicals

Discussion in 'Chemistry' started by chimpkin, Aug 10, 2011.

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  1. chimpkin C'mon, get happy! Registered Senior Member

    I have a friend who is in a rather peculiar situation...

    And I'd like to advise her as to what chemicals will cause eye burns if squirted in someone's face.

    She already tried mace; the guy beat her up. I tried persuading her to go to the police; he's got her intimidated so as to prevent that.

    So I was just brainstorming for any and every idea I could possibly think of.
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  3. spidergoat Valued Senior Member

    Go to the police anyway.
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  5. Me-Ki-Gal Banned Banned

    Griz stopper . It is illegal in most states . You can get it in Montana . Maybe on line . It puts out a pepper spray in a cloud and that is why it is illegal in other states . You can't miss with the stuff and that is why it is so effective on bears . Over the counter pepper sprays I have heard are to pin point and require more accuracy by the user . Like in California , useless for the average person when stopping wild animals . Only Griz stopper , it works . Made in Montana
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  7. chimpkin C'mon, get happy! Registered Senior Member

    Guy has been maced successfully, it didn't work.
  8. chimpkin C'mon, get happy! Registered Senior Member

    I keep telling her that? or rather to go to the state police, as the local yokels have proven rather useless..but she will not.
  9. Repo Man Valued Senior Member

    I mistakenly rinsed my contact lens with the hydrogen peroxide disinfectant rather than saline solution once. So I can attest that hydrogen peroxide in the eye is painful, and would probably be incapacitating. In my case, no permanent damage was done.

    I'm pretty doubtful that this information will help your friend, but you asked.
  10. Repo Man Valued Senior Member

  11. leopold Valued Senior Member

    this man has already proven himself a violent man.
    all this woman is going to do is get herself hurt really bad, maybe even killed.
    my honest opinion.
    1. murder him, this will guarantee her safety.
    2. permanently blind him, he can't hurt her if he can't see her.
    3. move to an entirely different area.

    it's a real shame that women must endure this type of bullshit.
    calling the police will do her no good, yeah in the short run maybe.
    she needs to do something NOW.

    another course of action would be an accomplice, another man, that is willing to kick some major ass. 4 or 5 broken bones and half a dozen broken ribs would do nicely.

    yet another course would be some self defense classes.

    she could of course screw the acid and just gouge his eyes out, a handful of car keys can ruin your day.

    so sue me.
  12. chimpkin C'mon, get happy! Registered Senior Member

    1.Trust me, since he's trespassed, I am all for a legal kill here, she would not do it, even if she had a gun!

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    (possibly watch here for a "what Chimpkin did on hir vacation and how long it took to prove it was defense of another " thread...)

    2. My suggestion, since mace already failed: oven cleaner!

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    3. I also said this: transfer colleges, figure out how to pay for it second, as he has stalked her at home and at college.
    If she goes out of state then files a restraining order, it is federal charges. The feds don't play.
  13. Trippy ALEA IACTA EST Staff Member

    Legality of pepper spray may vary (and hence the legality of this discussion).

    Following Leopolds suggestions is ill advised, because pre-meditation tends to negate the battered wife defense (I should probably just delete his post, and any similair posts that follow).

    Having said that.
    Here is a list of Lachrymatory agents on Wikipedia

    Note that CS and CN nerve gasses (components in Mace) are applied in a solid form, and must be absorbed through the skin to act on the Optic nerve to be effective. The transition from CN to CS nerve agents was made because CS gas was more effective and faster acting then CN gas.

    Note that pepper sprays use Caspacin, and that Capsacin produces a burning sensation on any part of the skin it contacts.

    Note that in order for something to be absorbed into the skin in the first place it must be fat soluble, and note that vegetable oils are considered fats, so anything that is fat soluble will also be soluble in vegetable oils.

    Note that it is generally accepted that if you expect to be tear gassed during a riot or demonstration, for the reasons outlined above, the worst thing you can do is coat yourself in pertoleum jelly to act as a barrier.

    While I might point out these freely available pieces of information, using for the most part wikipedia, I will not advise you on what you should do with it, because I might end up giving you advice to do something illegal in one or both of our countries (note, for example, that pepper sprays are considered a restricted weapon in NZ law). The only thing that I would encourage you to do is to read through the information I have provided you carefully, and consider your options equally carefully that will not lead to you violating the laws in your state.

    Also, I will note that many astringent agents can cause pain or discomfort when (for example) the eyes are exposed to them.
  14. chimpkin C'mon, get happy! Registered Senior Member

    In the US it varies, I would have to check that state's law. In some states you are allowed to come to the defense of someone being assaulted. In a lot of states self-defense is legal.
    At any rate the assault has to be in progress.

    In my state, on my own property?

    Dude, this is Texas.

    Maybe she should just come live with us?
  15. Captain Kremmen All aboard, me Hearties! Valued Senior Member

    That really hurts when it gets in your eyes.
  16. Cifo Day destroys the night, Registered Senior Member

    Chimpkin, you're intimidated too.

    You have reasonable knowledge that violent crime(s) and victim intimidation have occurred, so IMO, it's your duty as a citizen and a friend to inform the authorities (police, prosecutor's office, state police, state attorney general, etc). If she hates you for it afterwards and ends her friendship with you, so what? She'll be able to do so because she'll be alive/unharmed. Most likely, IMO, it will strengthen your friendship.

    What do you consider more precious: her friendship or her safety? Now is the time to run unselfishly into the burning building.

    Friends Don't Let Friends Get Beat Up.
  17. Pinwheel Banned Banned

    I did the same too once, wow it hurt like fuck.
  18. chimpkin C'mon, get happy! Registered Senior Member

    If I had an address, that would be good.
    Actually, if she and I lived close to each and I would not be having this convo...again, I live in Texas.
    Castle-doctrine state.

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    This is someone I met on a message board, and not in the same state. Not even within a long day's driving distance ( because she used her college email address, I at least now know what state we're talking about..

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    ) and I don't have an address for her, the perp, or a detailed description of all he's done.
    So I'm not sure if the police will take a report from a third party in this case, nor do I have enough detail to get them to prosecute him.

    Although...asking her to type something up and sending an email to the state attorney general is a really good idea.

    Let's see if I can persuade her to. That is the main issue, really. I can't seem to get her to move in her own defense.
  19. spidergoat Valued Senior Member

    She needs to go to a battered women's shelter, they deal with this kind of thing all the time. If she uses some kind of non-lethal weapon, he's just going to recover and abuse her again. If she wants to use something lethal, that's premeditated murder.
  20. MacGyver1968 Fixin' Shit that Ain't Broke Valued Senior Member

    I think your right SG....she already used mace against him, and got a beating in return. If she uses any other "improvised self-defense chemicals" the same thing will happen.

    If she won't take out a restraining order on the guy...or call the police...they're not much that can be legally done.

    I would only hope she seeks the help she needs....or move to Texas with me or Chimp...and we"ll shoot the motherfucker as soon as he steps foot on our property.

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  21. leopold Valued Senior Member

    the police will not arrest someone on a third parties information, it's hearsay and not admissible in court.
    they might investigate though and during the course of investigation find something to arrest him for.
    this is only a stop gap measure anyway, he will get out and it will be the same shit all over.
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2011
  22. leopold Valued Senior Member

    this will work ONLY if the shelter is a good one.
    indiana has some of the best, but they are few and far between.
    i seriously doubt if maximum security prisons have better security.
  23. adoucette Caca Occurs Valued Senior Member

    I would not advise this plan.

    Anything beyond Mace is likely to cause permanent injury and her use of them runs a good risk of HER going to jail, and depending on the injury, possibly for a long time unless she can prove self defense.

    But proving self defense isn't necssarily a slam dunk if she splashes it on him prior to him actually hurting her.
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