Impeachment!

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Bowser, May 31, 2019.

  1. Bowser Right Here, Right Now Valued Senior Member

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    It's almost time. Gonna happen. And it will be televised.
     
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  3. sculptor Valued Senior Member

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    could backfire?
     
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  5. spidergoat Venued Serial Memberlist Valued Senior Member

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    You're fired!
     
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  7. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    No.
    Because it's not a tactic, it's an obligation - a duty.
     
  8. sculptor Valued Senior Member

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    nonsense
    It is all politics. It is designed to be a political grandstanding play and nothing more.
    The senate will act as the jury,with the chief justice of the supreme court acting as judge.
    When the managers appointed by the house as prosecutors fail to convict(they will need 67 senators), they may(most likely) be seen as petty political hacks.

    The odds seem to indicate that the proceedings will fail to achieve conviction.
    ergo
    backfire
    when the managers themselves come under fire
     
  9. sideshowbob Sorry, wrong number. Valued Senior Member

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    Better to keep it hanging over his head. See what the balance of power is like in the Senate and House after 2020. If all else fails, snap the cuffs on him when he steps out of the White House in 2025.
     
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  10. parmalee peripatetic artisan Valued Senior Member

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    Agreed. But I have to wonder how strongly that aspect informs Nancy Pelosi.

    While I certainly appreciate her sentiments regarding certainty and having an iron-clad case and all, at the same time, well... I'm gonna remember that the next time a fucking cop is beating the shit out of me for the "crime" of having a seizure. I've gotta wonder if filthy rich white lady Pelosi even registers this fact--that these standards of justice simply do not apply for, like, 99.999 percent of the populace.
     
  11. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

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    Well that went south quickly...
     
  12. Jeeves Valued Senior Member

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    Where else could it have gone?
     
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  13. RainbowSingularity Valued Senior Member

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    trammell the young man whos door was kicked in then tasered while naked in the shower then given a lethal injection of sedatives to kill him because a neighbor said she saw him standing naked in the hallway ?

    while i do not condone the government murder of registered psychiatric patients
    there is a seperate position that probably tends to lose traction in debating concepts around such political appointments.
    while nancy may live well above and out of normal life, such people become targets of that same society when in side it.

    there is probably a different debate around the normalised violence that is projected as acceptable in society that allows such normalisation of the targeting of people in positions of power, or lack of power.

    it is a very complex issue that is easily strayed into different subject content that tends to disenfranchise the average debater by its terrible acts and violent reality.

    American culture is built around a concept of diverse gang affiliations as normal social groupings.
    this is what drives the stereo types that are used to indoctrinate children to be xenophobic as a normal type of social acceptable process and outcome.
    jocks nerds geeks preppys gothics popular unpopular
    the list then matures into affiliant groups of adult normalised violence.
     
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2019
  14. RainbowSingularity Valued Senior Member

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    imagine the disregard for the topic if the opposition was a rich white elderly man
    would he by association of xenophobia be labeled a commy ?

    probably because it sells to the indoctrinated xenophobia

    the majority of the population do not lose sleep over rich white men or poor mexican disabled men
     
  15. Jeeves Valued Senior Member

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    I found this both insightful and concise - two attributes I value.

    On topic, I very much doubt Pelosi's economic circumstances have any bearing on her response to Trump's crimes and misdemeanours in office. However, her political experience and savvy should prevent her acting precipitately to the detriment of her party's poll standing. It's a tightrope up there - especially now that the people are so haphazardly informed about their own government and its procedures.
     
    RainbowSingularity likes this.
  16. geordief Valued Senior Member

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    It would be a dereliction of duty for the Dems to look the other way for political gain, but this ground has already been taken by the Reps it seems.

    Seems like discretion may be the better part of valour ,ways to skin a cat and all that.
     
  17. Jeeves Valued Senior Member

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    Maybe not that, but bringing a charge when you're not sure you can make the case is bad strategy in a law-court, and worse in the political arena, since a failure - even getting off a technicality or procedural loophole - would be construed, and vigorously touted, by the Trump faction as injured innocence. It would only stoke their vengeful fires. America doesn't need - maybe can't survive - much more political feuding.
     
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  18. geordief Valued Senior Member

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    Well ,the case can be made but with the Senate mostly held by Reps it can be predicted that even a good case would be dismissed.
     
  19. Jeeves Valued Senior Member

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    There's that: more of them will have to wake up to the reality that they're cruising at at 35,000 feet on a plane with a loudly ticking bomb in the cockpit, and there are very few ways this situation can be resolved. But I don't know how heavily they're sedated.
    I don't have all the relevant evidence to hand. It seems that a case should be open and slammed shut; a number of obviously criminal elements are beyond doubt - in fact, I predicted that he'd have to hold his inauguration ball in prison - but I'm not familiar with all the legalities involved. I'm not sure anyone is: they've never had to, and never expected to deal with anything like this.
     
  20. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    That's where slinging "bothsides" bs for years will take you - the Republicans have been grandstanding and nothing more, therefore the "other side" must be doing the same ?

    Bullshit. Republican wingnut Fox News Hannity Murdoch lazy-ass juvenile Trump voter manure. The default setting of the ignorant and addled.

    The Congressional Democrats involved have been compromising and waffling and ducking and mealy-mouthing for months now, trying to avoid even the appearance of grandstanding - let alone the reality. They are at the point of shirking the obligation altogether, just for their weasel-calculated Clinton-triangulating idea of politics. That's not grandstanding - that's timidity, even cowardice.
    Pelosi has been trying to avoid impeaching this President - any way she can, without losing hold of her Party - since Trump took his oath of office in a state of immediate violation of that oath. Afaik there aren't any good motives for that.
    And if he isn't impeached they won't? Please.

    They are going to go spla, in a rabid childish panic, regardless of what the Democratic Party does.

    There is no way to avoid the behavior of the current Republican Party. No deals are possible, no compromises effective, no moderation in the cards, no decent political atmosphere achievable. You are fooling yourself to imagine otherwise.
    Well too bad - because America is dealing with a fascist takeover of the Republican Party, and "feuding" is how they roll. "Feuding" is what they do. A great deal more political "feuding" is coming down the track.

    You are in a dogfight for control of the institutions and agencies of American government, and your opponent is a fascist Party.

    If you are fantasizing about some orderly transition of power mediated by a marginal electoral defeat of some Republicans in 2020, you need to come up for air and look around. The 2020 elections are already half rigged, in the first place - the Dems have only a small chance of overcoming the Executive branch and Republican State governments's hold on the process before the vote, no chance at all of rehabilitating the news media - and without an impeachment the Dems cannot rely on the enforcement of law or rule.

    Way back when, iirc during the 2016 campaign on this forum as well as in the larger public arena, the stakes were laid out by the disreputable bloggers that have been calling this entire mess for twenty years and more - they were as follows:
    if Trump wins the election the crunch, the moment of truth, will come when the US Congress and public faces the necessity, the obligation, of impeaching him. If they flinch, they lose. That was more than two years ago.

    If this Congress does not attempt to impeach this President, it will lose the power of impeachment over this Presidency. That means - as Mueller explained, carefully and repeatedly - losing the rule of law and Constitutional control over any Republican administration from now on.
     
  21. Jeeves Valued Senior Member

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    Oh, I know that, but people who have high profiles and hopes don't want any of the spla on their nice shoes.
    Okay. I was kind of looking for a tiny chink for light to penetrate that big dark wall.
    And if he is impeached, they can?? Please....
    So, you figure on picking up the civil war where they left off - only with nukes?
    Some days, it's good to be old.
     
  22. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    If that made any difference, Marco Rubio would be President.
    I'm leaning on the 2/3 majority coming through in the clutch, maybe even stiffened a bit in the backbone by having the impeachment case against Trump laid out for perusal.

    It's the best bet, after all, in a democracy.
    They can lay out the case for impeachment. They can re-establish their authority and Constitutional powers.
    They might even not lose the next elections.
     
  23. Jeeves Valued Senior Member

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    A wing and a prayer?
    I suppose it could go that way. But how will the Trumpeters react? And what will the rank rank and file do?
    I don't think any scenario is looking all that good right now.
    I'm clutching my rabbit's foot... and he's not best pleased.
     

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