Immanuel Velikovsky

Let us examine this false claim.

Trippy is making a claim about "universality" therefore, according to Trippy, this is an a priori synthetic judgement, the truth of which is linked to the consciousness of it's necessity.

However, Albert Einstein and myself are "part of the universe" and we do not "universally" discredit and debunk Velikovsky's work, therefore Trippy's claims (as "pretty much" all of his other claims) are shown to be false.

For example, Velikovsky made several predictions which were proven to be correct.

I would like to discuss 3 of Velikovsky's claims in particular to show how they have not been "universally discredited and debunked" as claimed by Tripppy.

Claim Number 1 (Uniformitarianism is false)

"The sea erupted. Often the sea and land changed places. The immobility of contours of continents and seas, a dogma in geology, has no basis in fact. And immediately there is the problem of the climate. There were ancient climates that were very different from what they are today. If those corals grew where they were found, certainly the Earth was not travelling with the same elements of rotation and revolution which means not in the same orbit, not with the axis directed in the same position as it is today. If you don't believe it, try to conservate corals on the North Pole." -- Immanuel Velikovsky, cosmologist, 1974

Claim Number 2 (Venus is hot)

"And Venus must be hot if the history of the solar system is not the history of no change for billions of years. And Venus was found hot, not room temperature as was thought until 1959. In 1961 it was detected with radio means that it is like something like 600 Farenheit and Mariner 2 was sent out to find out true or not true? It was found that even more it is full 800 [degrees Farenheit]." -- Immanuel Velikovsky, cosmologist, 1974

Claim Number 3 (Jupiter emits radio waves)

"But then if there were events of this character, discharges between planets and so on, I put one of the most outrageous claims before the scientific readers, that in the solar system and in the universe generally, not just gravitation and inertia are the two forces of action but that also electricity and magnetism are participating in the mechanism, so the Lord was not just a watchmaker. The universe is not free of those forces with which the man makes his life easy already more than 100 years. They were unknown practically or little known in the time of Newton in the second half of the 17th century. But today we know that electricity and magnetism, these are not just small phenomena that can be repeated as a kind of a little trick in the lab, that they permeate every field from neurology into botony and chemistry and astronomy should not be free...and it was admitted by authorities that this was the most outrageous point in my claims. But the vengeance came early and swiftly. In 1960, already in 1955, radio noises from Jupiter were detected and this was one of the crucial tests that I offered for the truth of my theory. In 1958, the magnetosphere was discovered around the Earth, another claim. In 1960, the interplanetary magnetic field was discovered and plasma, so-called solar wind, moving rapidly along the magnetic lines and then it was discovered that the electromagnetic field of the Earth reaches the moon ." -- Immanuel Velikovsky, cosmologist, 1974

"Our debate ended on Friday, April 8, 1955, only nine days before Einstein’s death. I think I was the last person with whom he discussed a scientific problem. On that day I brought him the published news that Jupiter sends out radio noises; ten months earlier, in a letter to him, I had offered to stake our dispute on this my claim of an as yet undiscovered phenomenon..." -- Immanuel Velikovsky, cosmologist, 1976

Radio noises of Jupiter that were only predicted by Velikovsky are available on Youtube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e3fqE01YYWs

 

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The pretty much clause he used pretty much makes this post pretty much useless.

 

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Ah, I see, the "pretty much clause" makes his claim useless and meaningless.

There always has to be a qulifier, an if, a but, a hedge, a backpedaling, or something to cover all the bases.

That way they can say anything they want no matter how absurd and ridiculous and there is still an escape and evasion route.

I guess Einstein has also been "pretty much" universally discredited and debunked.

 

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You gentlemen baited OIM into the responses that he made and then penalized him for behavior that was no worse than yours. Did you know that mastery of the sciences is not accomplished by domineering others? For that matter, the kind of domination that you practice is immature and stupid and makes you look bad. If you really want to get the better of him, be men and women. Grow up.

 

if they were so sure of their argument's then they would not need to censor him. seems odd that he would get banned for doing exactly what everyone else here does.

 

From Wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immanuel_Velikovsky

Claim 1 made by OIM is not a positive claim, nor a primary claim made by Velikovsky. It isn't actually a claim based on geology but on trying to reconcile mythologies on various continents as part of global catastrophes which happened during human history. It carries about as much weight as Newton's guess that light was carried by particles, because the photons we describe now would surprise Newton.
Claim 2 is not a prediction made by Velikovsky in the quote. Even when Worlds in Collision was published in 1950 it was not a prediction.
Claim 3 is not a prediction made by Velikovsky in the quote. In 1953, Velikovsky wrote: "In Jupiter and its moons we have a system not unlike the solar family. The planet is cold, yet its gases are in motion. It appears probable to me that it sends out radio noises as do the sun and the stars." But in actual fact, the mechanisms involved are not fundamentally mysterious. While Jupiter was the first planet (1955) discovered to have radio emissions, the observation is not unique to Jupiter and Velikovsky gives us nothing to understand this general phenomenon with. Indeed, "all planets are thermal radio emitters, all magnetized planets are nonthermal radio emitters as well."


Timothy S. Bastian. "Radio emission from the Sun, planets, and the interplanetary medium." Proceedings of the International Astronomical Union, 2 (2006), pp 362-364 doi:10.1017/S174392130701099X

 

Whether that is actually a fact is debatable. I don't think OIM was lying.

 

Rpenner, I remember that Velikovsky went into lengthy explanations as to why he revised the chronology of history, and gave several reasons why two calendars should line up his way and not the usual way. Someone can make the claim that he did this to justify his hypothesis, but I always got the impression that his hypothesis grew from his best estimate of what his findings added up to. He was in more trouble trying to find physical theory to justify what history showed, although he made a reasonable guess as to physical theory. Electrically charged masses do generate forces many millions of times stronger than gravity generated by the same masses.

 

Velikovsky made up lengthy explanations as to why he revised the chronology of history, and physical theories and physical evidence, and astronomical theories and astronomical evidence, and geological theories and geological evidence, and biological theories and biological evidence, and archeological theories and archeological evidence, and .... In short, he was a lying charlatan who found that there was a lot more money and fame to be made selling crackpottery to the gullible public than in being an obscure psychologist.

 

Did you actually read the books?

Frankly, if Einstein was favorably impressed and tried to see if it fit physical theory, that's good enough for me. People tend to cherry-pick Einstein just like they do any other culture icon. I'm glad that at least Maxwell kept it plain and simple or we would be in such a world of hurt.

 

Probably by people who handle things the way that you do. That is not a compliment.

 

I am anti-lies and anti-stupidity. Authority uses lies and willful stupidity way too much for my tastes.