Imagine

Discussion in 'General Philosophy' started by WildBlueYonder, Apr 8, 2001.


  1. Now I think that's wishfull thinking, but is there anyway that we can work for the betterment of all the people? Or is that wishfull thinking? We are stuck on this little pale blue dot, stuck until someone can figure out how to get us out into space.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 11, 2001
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  3. I want to thank everybody for responding to this thread, but except for a few long, well thought-out statements, most were short & sweet. Which may be good for slogans, but to paraphrase 'Carl' in 'Starship Troopers', "we're in it for the species, boys and girls".
    Here's our problem; 6 billion people, 120 mediocre national governments, several pathetic international organizations, thousands of competing ideologies, and an unknown time limit for life on this pale blue dot. How do we help each other get beyond mere survival? How do we progress to a more equitable system, minus the bloodshed? Otherwise, what will make this or any other system work for the majority of people? Not just the few?
    What I would like somebody to do, if at all possible, is write a plan that you think will work, then maybe debate it on this thread or some other one? What do you all think?

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  5. Just wondering if our time is up? Looks like one '-ism' just can't see past the blood in their eyes?? Now we find out what stuff we're made up of, sorry to all, but it's blood and guts. In both senses, can mean 'tough warrior' or 'body parts'.

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  7. KalvinB Publicity Whore Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,063
    Removing God from society would do no good as religion is used to falsly justy violence not the cause of it. Repeat that 1000 times or until you understand it.

    If there were no religion people would still cut you off. Still Steal. Still cheat on their wives, still murder...ect ect ect. In otherwords...nothing would change.

    It's a nice song but face it. We only go to war to get things others won't let us have peacully whether we should have them or not. Remove the coveting nature of man and then we'll stop having wars.

    Course you probably don't understand that. Any opportunity you have to accuse religion of being a bad thing you'll take despite how rediculous your claim is. God forbid you should blame yourselves.

    It's Islam's turn this time to try to beat it into your thick skull that the islamic religion had NOTHING to do with this attack. It was just used to FALSLY JUSTIFY the act. But you won't listen. We've got what, 5 or 6 threads blaming religion?

    Learn to use your head. Otherwise you're just as intolerant as you accuse us of being.

    Way to go.

    Ben
     
  8. Ben, I understand a lot of things. I don't need anyone to so-call 'beat me over the head', my skull is not that thick. I try to use logic, understanding & history to make my judgements.

    You may want to read the original post that started this thread & the last two(I was attempting to end this thread & go from there). It seems that events of Sept 11th are imposing themselves so that we have to change our thinking from the theoretical to the application of real solutions.

    I'm not sure who you are asking to listen? I don't remember ever making a blanket statement blaming religion for our problems? I did use John Lennon's song as the title of this thread, but more as a challenge to come up with something better that the present Western society. I know that there can be better, but so far we have not achieved that, which is too bad. As a Christian, I think people's interpretation of things & their response are the problems. And as a Christian, I feel that at least islam, which started it's foundation by killing & overthrowing Mecca, & took the sword to half the then known world. Some people claim that those that did not convert, were put to the sword, which is why Syria, Jordan, Egypt & North Africa are muslim now. That I would like to research better before I truely believe it.
    I think that since this is such a terrible act, many people will try to put both islam & terrorists as one & the same, I have met & befriended muslims, they are a generous, friendly people no matter what country they come from. But until they can articulate their anger over our support of Israel & ground forces in Saudi Arabia in a better way that previously, they will be frustrated for a long time.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 16, 2001
  9. Hypnogog Registered Member

    Messages:
    29
    Like most, or just some, I've spent alot of time trying to think of the "Utopian Society" and have a fairly decent idea of where I want to be but not how to get there. Here's just a few highlights:
    1) End mandatory Obsolescence - stop making things that break just so we have to buy more. (Everyone's heard of the Infinite light bulb right?)
    2) Pollution control is mandatory - no acceptable levels, screw that! As close to 0 as we can get.
    3) Eliminate production caps on agriculture and use the excess to feed the hungry - for free. Gratis. Your welcome.
    4) Figure out where in the world has the best educational sys in the world and implement it. (Also schooling year round, to train for the "real' world.)
    5) ... nah I'll stop now. I'm sure I've given enough to discuss.
     
  10. Paca Huesca Registered Member

    Messages:
    25
    You all write and think so cleverly. I heard a cry, yet
    All of this is due to INJUSTICE.
    How come you ae able to think and write so nicely, when three quartes of the world's population - either only think of scratching some food out of the earth, or dreams of revenge on us ? (I said "us" all those who enjoy the luxury of being able to think).
    As we say in French " Ventre affamé n'a pas d'oreilles". Who starved three quarters of the world's population ? Who are the guilty ones ? Who the accomplices ? How dare you keep on with all this "pseudo-philosophical" stuff ?
    WHO on earth emphasized the "values" of individualism ? Here you have the results, just before your eyes.
    Why didn't you, or your parents, rebel against McCarthy ?
    Did you support your leaders wen they gave money to the Moujahidins, only for the hatred of your "brainwashed" version of the so-called horrors of the Soviets ?
    Let me tell you : you might regret those enemies, because in order to destroy them, you fed far more dangerous and monstruous ones
     
  11. Paca Huesca Registered Member

    Messages:
    25
    I heard a cry.
    All of this is due to INJUSTICE.
    How come you ae able to think and write so nicely, when three quartes of the world's population - either only think of scratching some food out of the earth, or dreams of revenge on us ? (I said "us" all those who enjoy the luxury of being able to think).
    As we say in French " Ventre affamé n'a pas d'oreilles". Who starved three quarters of the world's population ? Who are the guilty ones ? Who the accomplices ? How dare you keep on with all this "pseudo-philosophical" stuff ?
    WHO on earth emphasized the "values" of individualism ? Here you have the results, just before your eyes.
    Why didn't you, or your parents, rebel against McCarthy ?
    Did you support your leaders wen they gave money to the Moujahidins, only for the hatred of your "brainwashed" version of the so-called horrors of the Soviets ?
    Let me tell you : you might regret those enemies, because in order to destroy them, you fed far more dangerous and monstruous ones
     
  12. KalvinB Publicity Whore Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,063
    "A violent start"

    What system of beliefs didn't have some violence at the beginning? How does that make them wrong? It just points out you'll never have 100% acceptance of any system. Someone will always break the rules of the cause to further the cause.

    "western society"

    We're not dealing with a society. We're dealing with human nature. When you can fix human nature you can fix all our problems. You can't do that by simply writing a new rule book. That's never worked. Out of the thousands of religions and societies there is not one that lives perfectly. There is always evil. We are constantly trying to better our society. Every society is.

    "There is something better"

    Define 'better'

    Until you can convince people there is such thing as absolute moral truths you'll always have a bit of relativism. What you feel is better may not be 'better' to someone else. What better is, is usually defined by whose in charge.

    If you don't like western society...there are plenty others to choose from. Your best option may just be a deserted Island.

    Ben
     
  13. Paca Huesca Registered Member

    Messages:
    25
    Thanks, Kalvin, for answering me. I was quite provocative. But it is also due to the lengthe of the messages alowed.... couldn't be more explicit (I had to cross out whole sentences).
    However, you didn't really answer my question : I admit it is a very difficult one. As we say here "anyone should sweep before his frontdoor". Perhaps I am not o the right forum : my question is : don't you think that you, (noy you particularly of course) but your nation, should start thinking seriously about their responsibilities ? I say that because I teach English, and I DO know a lot about your culture. In the last scholl year, we made a dossier with our students about "death penalty" in the US.
    I am really sorry, but your country is one of the last ones -along with Saudi Arabia, China, Iran and so on- to practise this barbarous "custom".
    (By the way - you didn't answer my questions about you, the citizens of the most powerful country in the world).
    DEMOCRACY ? Are the actual Americans real democrats ? That is MY question (maybe I should go to the "political forum").
    However : I do love you and you people. Fran.
     
  14. If I understand it right, at least for the US, we have had the Peace Corps, some missionaries help build infrastructure, Greenpeace, we support U.N.I.C.E.F. & the W.H.O., etc. Sure it’s a small effort compared to the ravenous Western appetite for raw materials. But sorry, I don't remember the French supporting any large-scale effort except for 'Doctors sans frontieres'(which we support as 'Doctors without Borders'), are there more?


    If I remember right, the French left a nice legacy too; in Africa, the Caribbean, North & South America, Indochina & the Pacific. And for Europe, does the name Napoleon ring a bell?

    Sorry, we are not Sartre, this is the best that average people like me can do. If you need deeper stuff, then you may need to meet more intellectual friends.



    We are a creature of the West, one of whose mothers happens to be French; philosophically, religiously, economically, martially, politically, intellectually, artistically, etc. And, oh yes, even our snobs & elites like to speak French, go to France on vacation & eat French foods & wines.


    So, what happened when your country was in Algeria & Vietnam?

    We are all 'brainwashed' by our society to believe in our culture, it's values & ideas, it's point of reference. Why? Are you saying that you are a neutral, unbiased observer?


    !touche!
     
  15. Paca Huesca Registered Member

    Messages:
    25
    I understand your reaction. However, even when you can strike back, why strike back with such pity weapons ? Napoleon, Sartre....and the Vietnam ! Yes, we had colonies, like Algeria for exemple..... the British had colonies too, in North America.... Why not talk about La Fayette ?
    And for one thing : we French people never pretended to be the "leaders of the free world".... that is why, for instance, we didn't intervened in Chile in order to defend our "values".
    Let me remind you that during the sinister times of McCarthy, the censorship was so hard that all your best writers had to come over here to be published . (Faulkner/Henry Miller and such and such....)
    Let me remind you too that your country is one of the last ones -together with Saudi Arabia, Iran and China- to practise the death penalty, which is contrary to all the rules of democracy; (see the official texts).
    Sorry if I sound unpleasant .
    And as you acknowledged : touché ! (I am sorry for being right).
     
  16. ripleofdeath Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,762
    hey all

    LOL

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    Paca Huesca...
    you touch the issue quite nicely

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    all want to be GOD!
    BUT
    All know they are not and can not be!
    SO
    They want to be treated as though they are just as important as GOD!
    YET
    they want to be treated better than anyone else!

    LOL

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    the sickness deepens with the greater the merchandising

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    its soo obviouse yet soo many seem to miss it completely!
    the particular system is irrelavant because the basic nature of the people who ACTUALY run "the show" does not and will not change!!!!!

    groove on all

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  17. Paca Huesca Registered Member

    Messages:
    25
    hello

    I haven't been here long.
    In fact, I was a bit afraid of you people's reactions.!!!!
    I was misunderstood, and I thought "gosh ! this is going to turn into q quarrel between the "froggies" and "uncle Sam".
    Thanks for your answer.
    Just I don't understand it all what does it mean , "groove it all" ?
    Can you explain ?
    Friendship from a "froggy".
     
  18. Paca Huesca Registered Member

    Messages:
    25
    I didn't see that you, Ripleofdeath, were from New Zealand : I am curious too about "oxymoron earthling".
    Are there kangaroos in New Zealand too ? THAT is the question.
    Bye, from the teacher.
     
  19. tablariddim forexU2 Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    4,793
    Hey Paca Huesca

    groove on all is the same as 'keep on trucking' or 'keep on keeping on', I hope that's cleared it up for you.

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  20. tetra Hello Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    144
    The only way for us to create an ideal society is to find something more fun than war, and the only place that that might be is in space.
     
  21. Chagur .Seeker. Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,235
    tetra ...

    We already have it: SEX

    Am I the only one around old enough to remember "Make Love, not War"

    Unfortunately, 'Family Values' did a real number on that wonderful thought.
     
  22. Paca Huesca Registered Member

    Messages:
    25
    Are ther really such things as "American revolutionaries"????
    (Sory, I haven't been her long, so I didn't follow - and didn't understand your explanation about "groove it all", since you used slang to explain slang !
    Bye, friendship from France (cocorico!!!!)
     
  23. tablariddim forexU2 Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    4,793
    GROOVE ON ALL!!!

    KEEP ON DOING WHAT MAKES YOU HAPPY!!!
    C'EST COMPRENDE?

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