I'm stupid trying to explain God rationally!!!

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Jan,

Erm, what in the fuck has Darwin to do with social Darwinism?

Tyler:

Not exactly. Versailles was a blunder, and Germany did not have a say in it, but the restrictions were much tougher on paper than they really were. The troops left Germany fairly quickly (the public wanted an end to the war and all), and only occupied the Rhineland (?) for a little while after that.

Germany suffered horrible inflation, but the inflation allowed her to pay off reparations quite easily and with little damage. The countries she devastated, Belgium especially, were not so lucky.

As for military restrictions, they were also quickly lifted when fears of the Soviets increased in Britain and America.

No. Not necessary. Germany was rebuilding under Hitler and could have continued to do so without the war.

And it was pointless - Hitler could have easily been stopped early on but Chamberlain and the French did not wish to. America did not wish to get involved, as usual.

Back to Jan:

You are right, Hitler was rather ignorent of the true nature of race, genetics and basic science. He was not a stupid man, but believed in many nonsensical mystical concepts. Ignorent, in my book.

However, he knew what he was doing by attacking the Jews.

 

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Adam:

"No. Only Germany had a NAZI party. The letters NAZI even specify it as a German political party"

National Socialist Party. That's what Nazi was short for. Not German. There was a different Fascist party in each nation. Most were similar to Hitler's German Nazi's after 1933.


"Well, people called it Communism, but it wasn't. It was a twisted Socialism. Note what the letters USSR stand for."

United Soviet Socialist Republics. Hitler's Nazi's were also called Socialist. Socialism is a form of economics, mainly.



"Dare you to go up to one and say Hitler is not a murderer.

What would be the point of that, we know he was.
I understand and agree with your point, I am requesting you to see the bigger picture."

When did I say he wasn't?


"I would say to make distinction, but go on."

So to discriminate is to make distinctions between people based on creed, race or political belief. And hitler DIDNT do this?


"Hitler was, IMO a foollish man with a great personality who was used by higher and different forces, to force certain agendas, to him he saw the Aryan race of people from a bodily concept, namely blond hair and blue eyes, which again showed his ignorance, especially when he had dark hair and eyes. So he was in a sense signing his own death warrant."

Hitler wasn't used by any higher power. He was an individual that saw a problem, saw a solution and believed he could lead the nation to that solution. And yes, it is ironic that he himself was not blonde/blue eyes. But he was still Austrian and therefore German.


"Which strengthens my point, that he was ignorant."

What does that have to do with whether or not he discriminated against Jews?


"Do you think he was right?"

Where have I implied I do?


I'll reply more later, I'm in school right now....

 

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NAZI = National Socialist German Workers' Party.

 

Nazi= Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei (NSDAP)=National Socialist German Worker's Party = National Socialists.

Were the Nazis socialists? Yes and no. They encouraged a rather dualist system - capitolism subservient to the state.

 

Erm, I'll say whatever the fuck I please, unless Pofiry has a problem with it. I talk the way I type.

Now, dear sweet delicate Jan Ardena, who may suffer the vapors or faint or whatever the (fuck?) ladies do in the presence of foul language,

What has Darwin to do with Social Darwinism?

 

Back home, time for the rest of my reply.

Xev;

"Not exactly. Versailles was a blunder, and Germany did not have a say in it, but the restrictions were much tougher on paper than they really were. The troops left Germany fairly quickly (the public wanted an end to the war and all), and only occupied the Rhineland (?) for a little while after that.

Germany suffered horrible inflation, but the inflation allowed her to pay off reparations quite easily and with little damage. The countries she devastated, Belgium especially, were not so lucky.

As for military restrictions, they were also quickly lifted when fears of the Soviets increased in Britain and America"

- The French troops did not leave Germany until the SS Police were in works.
- Germany was Die Vaderland, so calling it 'her' should be 'him'! I know this is stupid and pointless but, eh, whaddaya gonna do...
- Germany's economic and unemployment state was worse than America and Canada during the depression starting in the 30's, much worse. It didn't chnage until the Nazi's took over.
- Fear of the Soviets? That didn't start until Nazi's! And they weren't really lifted. They just didn't do anything when Hitler started building army/navy/air. This was part of appeasement.


"No. Not necessary. Germany was rebuilding under Hitler and could have continued to do so without the war.

And it was pointless - Hitler could have easily been stopped early on but Chamberlain and the French did not wish to. America did not wish to get involved, as usual."

Okay, the Holocaust was certainly not unavoidable. But in my opinion, War was going to happen no matter what. Consider the options....(1) Democracy continues, Germany never becomes more than a third world nation.....(2) Communism takes over, in which case the Global Communist war continues stronger.....(3) Nazi's take over. And had WWII not happen (and this is a BIG if), consider what Stalin's army would have looked like. Personally, I'm glad we had a Hitler to knock off as many Commie threats as he did. Had Stalin been allowed to build as MASSIVE an army as he could have without fighting Hiter......who knows what the Allied/Soviet war would have looked like.


Jan;

"Discrimination means in essence to make distinction, for example I am a vegetarian, this means I discriminate against eating meat. So there is always discrimination, there simply has to be."

And Hitler discriminated against Jews/Commies/Gypsies.....
How does this not make sense to you?

Hitler believed that Aryan's were of more valuable than Jews. So he discriminated against Jews.

Whether or not he was right makes no difference in whether or not he discriminated.


"namely blond hair and blue eyes, which again showed his ignorance, especially when he had dark hair and eyes."

Not exactly. Hitler and the Nazi's prefered the blonde hair blue eyes thing, they didn't demnad it. As long as you were Aryan, in his classification of Aryan, you were okay. As long as you weren't a commie that is.


"Most of the world still does, in my opinion"

This is not opinionated. The population of the world, if you asked every individual who knows about the Holocaust, would say Hitler was wrong. Whether or not someone holds racist feelings is a different story...


"Then tell me your personal view on the subject. Because from where I’m standing that is exactly what you are saying."

Hmmmm. I call Hitler discriminatory and you say I support him....

Veeeeeeery interesting...


"But surely you can see he was wrong and not in the best interest?"

Yes and No. Hitler did an incredibly horrible thing. But, in 1933 it was definetly the best option for Germans to choose Nazi Party. Like I said, which would you choose if your nation was in a state of embarassment for something you didn't do and was economically in depression which looked to be around for a looooooong time:
Party (1) says they will do nothing to improve conditions
Party (2) says they will improve conditions but destroy your culture
Party (3) says they will improve conditions and cherish your culture.

At the time, no Germans believed Hitler would do something like the Holocaust. If you try and deny this, look at it this way; If you were a Jew in Germany and you knew the Holocaust was coming, would you not have left?


"No, but they are to be protected"

Why value women and children over men? Why protect them over men?


"The irony is that not even Darwin was committed to his theory"

'I'm not a Marxist'
- Karl Marx


"But who created the economic crash, who controlled the world banking organisations, and thes the world economy, it was so-called Jewish people, and they still do."

Ummmm. The Jews didn't create the economic crash of the 1930's.


"Again I ask, how did this financial situation occur?"

A few reasons. For one, Versailles Treaty LARGELY hurt Germany's economy. For two, the stock market crash of 1929 caused basically global depression. And three, because of this crash, exportation stopped, creating problems for all countries that relied on exports for money. There's more to this but I don't think you really want me to go into it. The reason for the crash though? Well, during the twenties stocks were seen as a quick way to get money. The way to get the money to pay for the stocks was bank loans. Stock prices went up too fast. Too much money in circulation. Largely because of U.S.

NOT because of Jews.





I don't understand your points here Jan. Discrimination is to seperate people based on something like creed, race, political view. You hold the opinion that seperating people based on creed, race and political view is ignorant because humans are humans, regardless of these things. But that does not mean that discrimination of humans does not exist. In no way does that make Hitler's acts non-discriminatory. He discriminated against Jews. Segregated them. Saw them as less-than-Aryan. He segregated and discriminated!

 

linguistics

Truthseeker, you cannot see the forest for the trees.

Man created god, not the other way around. God is omni-everything b/c a man said he it was so.........(325ad, council of Nicea, where the leading religious scribes of the time, CREATED, the Christian religion, decided what books would be included in the bible, made Christ divine, Mary a virgin, and thus began 2000 years of monotheism).........


Don't waste your time trying to figure out god. There is only what we do.........."do the right thing"


peace, jandt

 

Jan: Nope, not even one out of three. And do not expect me to waste my brandy on reviving you should you faint.

Now dear, what does Darwin have to do with Social Darwinism?

JandT: Indeed:
"God is an invention of Man. So the nature of God is only a shallow mystery.
The deep mystery is the nature of man. --Nanrei Kobori"

Tyler: Yes, looking at it that way, WW2 does seem unavoidable. However, Hitler could have been stopped early on....

It seems we agree.

 

jandt,

Can you quote me...?
I'm a little lost here...

Love,
Nelson

 

I was responding to your original post that began this thread........

 

Jan:

I'll ignore you....So long as you keep your goddamn hands off my man.

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However, Darwin did not fucking create Social Darwinism. And Darwinian theory (classic evolutionary theory) is not fucking 'dogma', because it is fucking science.

[This post brought to you by the SPVF, the Society for the Proliferation of the Verb 'Fuck'.]

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"fucking science"?

Now there's something I'd like to research!

 

Adam:

And now you know what sort of grants the William Jefferson Clinton Foundation awards!

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*

*Note Xev's cunning use of emoticon.

 

That reminds me of a TV advertisement we have here. There is a pudding-like snack here called Yogo, comes in little plastic tubs. The advertisements all involve Yogorilla and his buddy Snake saving the world and such. One ad has the aliens attacking Earth and stealing all the Yogo. Then we see the USA president's office. The pres is a rhinocerous (horny, ya see), with an intern who has a Yogo stain on her dress...

 

Ha ha ha! I love it!

God, I miss sex scandels. And interns.

I never thought I'd say that. I miss sex scandels.

 

We get that add as well. It was a blue dress. The blue dress. And the pres has the Clintonian Arkansian drawl. That's just too subtle for the kids its aimed at.