I'm stupid trying to explain God rationally!!!

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Posted by Jan Ardena:

Yes... it's very substantial.

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Not so much different then the things I say...

Love,
Nelson

 

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I've yet to see Jan contribute anything more than feeble attempts at insult.

Not even her insults are worth remembering. A bit of hysterical screaming here, a bit of nastiness there....*Yawn*

Funny, this reminds me of a friend's 'proof' of athiesm:

God is all-knowing, ja?
God is everything, ja?
God is everywhere, ja?
God is incomprehensible, ja?

What is the difference between an immaterial, incomprehensible being that is everything and everywhere and nothing?

God may or may not exist, but we can certainly say that God is meaningless.

 

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"I didn't discovered I'm stupid, I discovered that God can't be limited by words..."

Most things can't be properly described with words. Language is just evolved grunting.


"It's possible to experience God... but not explain Him rationally..."

So you realize that you can not prove god exists. Good for you. Welcome to your first bite of reality.


"The term God was created to explain the Universe."

Let me tell you a little story Nelson. Once there was a brand new species to the planet. Now this brand new species was special, because it had special ways it could communicate. It was smarter and more logical and reasonable than other species. Now, this species was one that would spend it's existence attempting to explain everything around it. Right off the bat, the species is not able to explain anything, so it starts noticing small things. It notices that it can explain things one simple way 'Ooga'. The all mighty Ooga, you see, was figured to have started the world. The all mighty Ooga controls the water, the animal and birth. The all mighty Ooga is wherey ou go when you die. After all, it's kind of depressing to think you work your whole life and then just disappear, right? Of course! Also, the all mighty Ooga means life has meaning. Always a good thing!

Are you getting my drift? Do you understand how there is a very plausible way for religion to have started?

 

And I've yet to see Jan be insightful. Calling Hitler non-discriminatory? Not exactly smart.

 

I've said this before but, God is the creation of man to fill his need for immortality. I don't know if I believe that, I don't know what I believe. I do know that niether side of the argument for and against the idea of God can bring evidence - we simply don't know. And because we don't have proof.

We'll know when we're dead or we won't be in existance and its not like we'll be capable of caring. You can't explain God, you can't explain him not being there either. Science doesn't prove God doesn't exist it just shows hes "not necassary".

 

Tyler,

I can prove to myself... I don't know if I can prove to others, though...

About your little story, I would like to remember another little one, about Greek Philosophy...

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Plato used to think that there is a "World of Ideas" where everything come from. Isn't God from this "World of Ideas" where Creation is made?

These ideas are ancient and originated from many Philosophies and Religions that explain the Universe pretty well...
For example, Taoism. Taoism says that everything is created by the Tao which is composed by two opposites. Everything they did is to observe Nature. That's what I do, that's what is also written in your story. Yes, this means I agree in a certain degree with your story. But I would also say that a simple meaninful explanation of the Universe can easily be made through Philosophy and observation of Nature.

Love,
Nelson

 

truthseeker,

You can only prove something to yourself if you have an independent mechanism that allows you to determine the difference between truth and delusion. Without such a control you cannot know that what you perceive is true or not. If you have such an independent mechanism then because of its independence others would be free to also make use of it and verify your claims for themselves.

I doubt you have any such mechanism and all you have is indistinguishable from delusion. And since your claims are extraordinary and fantastic then delusion seems by far the most likely and probable conclusion.

Understandable when they had no knowledge of modern science and zero knowledge of neuroscience.

Ancient does not imply truth but more like out of date, and explanations also give no indication of truth or not.

For any explanation to have value it must first be credible and secondly provable. I could observe a bird flying and explain the event as the bird having knowledge of advanced anti-gravity technology. By your reasoning this is an explanation and must therefore be true since it fits observations. Similarly invalid explanations include conclusions that a god did it.

Without evidence all you have are fantasies.

Cris

 

Jan:

Nothing: The absence of any thing.

Webster's concurs:

Yours rather disproves the existance of a merciful God, as does Country-Western.

Well let's see.....have you read your posts?

Even NELSON called you on it!

Ummm, no.

Only when interesting and substantiative, such as when Tony and I 'fight'.

Insightfull? Tell me, do you ever have problems with your ego bumping against the stratosphere?

Nelson:

Throughout recorded history, attempts have been made to prove the existance of God. None suceeded.

Can you prove his existance to yourself, or are you simply trying to believe?

The idea of God comes from a form. But, so does the idea of Great Cthulhu.

In any case, Plato's prattle is hardly substantiated or proven.

 

Cris,

Ok... then ask people that meditate... They will give you the same things... Coincidence? I doubt...

You seem not to understand Philosophy at all...


Xev,

Because most of people are more worried about their pride...

I already did...

What...?

Yeah... now you and Cris are telling me that you are Greater then Plato...

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Love,
Nelson

 

truthseeker,

I’ve been a practitioner of TM since 1977 and I became a TM-Sidhi in 1987 (advanced techniques).

http://www.tm.org
http://www.tm.org/sidhi/index.html

So while I have had some superb experiences during meditation, none of those experiences lead me to conclude that something supernatural exists.

I don’t know what you call mediation but if it involves attempts to convince yourself that a god exists then that isn’t any way objective. However, please tell me how you define meditation.

Cris

 

truthseeker,

Depends what you mean by greater, but we have access to scientific knowledge that Plato never had. If Plato was alive now with such knowledge then his conclusions may well have been very different.

Cris

 

Nelson:

No, because they are based on bad logic, or fail on scientific grounds.

My philosophy teacher, himself a devout Catholic, disproved Descartes' proof.

Easy. You are one of our 'nicest' posters....I should consider you a bit of an expert on whether Jan is being nasty.

Er, no. His science is outdated, which led him to some rather poor conclusions. His 'Republic' preceded the development of true, stable democracys and is thus practically useless.

He had many fascinating ideas....since when am I 'Greater' than him? Please quote back where I or Cris claimed that.

 

Cris,

I did have some meditation experiences...
What I find out each day more and more is that "coincidence" is just one of the words we use to explain what God does...

Meditations improved "coincidences" in my life...

A state of the mind where the ego is silenced and the Highter Self is easily perceived.

In other words...
A state of oneself where we are silenced and God is easily perceived.

Or...
A state of being where the conscient is subjected and the subconscient is highly perceived.

....

No, he would have observed Nature. Another example:
The "I don't know any true man" philosopher... I don't remember his name...

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Unfortunatly, I don't remember who used to walk in the street and once was asked what was he looking for... the answer was: "a true man"... then... what does this mean?

Xev,

Finally someone disagree with Descartes...

Have you ever really read what he wrote...?
The same as above...

You never said that... but the way you two speak it seems that you are an authority on the subject...

Love,
Nelson

 

Nelson:

Quite close to the origional purpose of reaching nothingness, or Nirvana.

I would define it as a unfamiliar mental state that leads to a sense of 'oneness' with the universe and oneself, but that's the materialism talking

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Yes, the Republic and some of his other works. I'm more familiar with Aristotle though...more to my liking.

Hardly an authority, but I've read a fair bit of philosophy.

 

Xev,

It IS the way to reach the Nirvana...

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Love is included, in a deeper way...

Love is more linked with Shiva, though...


Don't like Aristotle...
I prefer Plato and Socrates...

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Love,
Nelson

 

Jan you're an idiot. I gave much proof and historical fact that showed Hitler killed discrimanatorily. You said 'Hitler killed for power' than did nothign to back it up. That was just a personal belief you hold.

As a matter of fact, it is a very huge debate whether or not Hitler believed in the ideals he killed for. HOWEVER, the debate does not deny this Nazi Police test:

"Is he Jewish? If yes throw him in jail
Is he communist? If yes throw him in jail
Is he a gypsy? If yes throw him in jail"

If seperating people by race and political opinion is not discriminatory, what is?


"And you actually believe that’s how it started, right?"

Nope, I believe it's possible. I believe it's plausible. To me, it seems quite logical. However I have yet to prove it so I won't say I take it as fact. I don't claim something as fact based on circumstancial evidence and guesses. I leave that up to religious people.


"Yeah... now you and Cris are telling me that you are Greater then Plato..."

I am greater than Plato, in the sense you seemed to ask. I have had the privelage of reading every philosopher before and since him. I have at my access a huge amount of scientific knowledge compared to what he had. I have philosophical progression to look at. I know more about human patterns than he did because I have thousands more years and billions more people to look at. That's only natural. Are you saying you know less about science than plato?

If Plato was here today.......no comparison. I'd sooner worship Plato than a god. His thought process is light years ahead of mine.


"Have you ever really read what he wrote...?
The same as above..."

Plato's views on democracy were less intelligent than ours today because we have had thousands more years of experience. That does add to something.


"Don't like Aristotle...
I prefer Plato and Socrates..."

Why? Plato is a beautiful author, that's the only reason I can think of. Aristotle wrote like a computer.


"Absent from where or whom?"

Let me give you an example.

Pretend each M inside the square is a bit of matter.

---------------------------
|MMMMMMMMMMMM|
|MMMMMMMM MM|
|MMMMMMMM MM|
|MMMMMMMMMMMM|
---------------------------

See that little area without anything in it? There is nothign there.

 

Tyler, Nelson:

I prefer arid Ari. Yep, he wrote like a computer, but you can easily understand him. Plato...incomprehensible..

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Jan:

Here, us, the universe. Absent from existance.

Well come on! It was your insult, I simply stated it better.

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