I'm not voting in this year's election

Discussion in 'Politics' started by wegs, Jun 10, 2020.

  1. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

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    The advantage of a three party system is that it is very easy and very common to arrange a minority government. One party leads, but the other two can band together to outvote them. That automatically keeps policies more toward the centre. That's how Canada does so well.
     
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  3. Seattle Valued Senior Member

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    That's common in a Parliamentary system. We have in the House a winner take all electoral system so that doesn't encourage three parties.

    Our party systems are also pretty informal compared to other systems so no one really has to vote with their party (and often don't).

    There's nothing to prevent 3 parties in the Constitution however (as far as I know).
     
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  5. kx000 Valued Senior Member

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    Trump is far worse than Biden. If you think the president is a figure head do you think it would be wise to become a independent?
     
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  7. parmalee peripatetic artisan Valued Senior Member

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    I was gonna drop this, but it's kind of buggin' me.

    No, I don't know you, nor anyone else who posts on this forum. Likewise, neither you--nor anyone else here--know me. We only know what you post, what I post and so forth. But the fact is, you have posted certain falsehoods regarding a number of matters that are of utmost concern and import to the upcoming elections and the future directions of this nation--you'll recall that you were totally unaware of the degree to which Trump downplayed and dismissed (as a "Democrat" hoax) the Coronavirus pandemic, as well as the timeline during which Trump took literally NO actions for months on end to address any of the pressing demands (save for the China travel ban, which turned out to be not much of a travel ban at all), until several posters here provided detailed synopsis of his failures, ja? Likewise, you yourself have admitted to not being informed about any number of matters pertinent to this presidency and it's nefarious endeavors.

    You are correct that the sheer volume of disinformation out there is overwhelming, and separating the wheat from the chaff is no small feat; but neither is it a colossal feat, unless you're in the business of professional fact-checking (something which I have done for a number of publications, textbooks and the like: not fun. At least, not anymore. It used to be alright, then it just became a drag.)

    This isn't like, I don't know, debating whether or not Paul McCartney is dead or recent findings in cryptozoology. This is real world shit, with very serious real world consequences for an awful lot of people and other beings on this planet. Yet, like I said, I really don't follow politics all that closely anymore. I feel like I know just barely enough to be a responsible citizen who ought exercise my right to vote if I deem it necessary (where I live presently, my vote in presidential elections is of no consequence, so...). But, again, just barely. I flog myself regularly over being ill-informed on pertinent matters. Still, I'm not reticent when it comes to expressing my opinions on certain matters--I just try to make damn sure that I've got my facts straight first.

    And, of course, there's the not terribly bright to consider. People posting (for instance) anti-vaxxer bullshit is just sick and wrong--and people have died as a consequence of these disinformation campaigns. Or, to take some recent examples from this very forum. An Australian poster has repeatedly objected to criticisms of Trump's handling of the pandemic, to the factual claim that Trump "stole" the election, etc.--and then he admits that he really doesn't follow U.S. politics that closely anyways. WTF?! Another poster has claimed that "middle class black people" are treated no differently from anyone else, except, perhaps by the police! Again, WTF?! That's some dangerously idiotic shit right there.

    And that is why I so strongly opposed to displays of (seemingly) willful ignorance coming from otherwise intelligent people. Your words have consequences, especially when they're posted on the interwebs and accessible by essentially anyone and everyone on this planet.
     
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  8. wegs Matter & Pixie Dust Valued Senior Member

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    I'm not a Trump supporter, and I've been very aware of how poorly he has and continues to govern the US. I don't think Biden is the ''solution,'' though. That said, it doesn't take much brain power to see that Trump has failed the US miserably, and that anyone might be better than him. You seem to pride yourself on putting me down for whatever your reason, and hoisting yourself on a pedestal. I'm glad you're demonstrating this though, because it kinda shows what is wrong with our country. I'm a fellow citizen, and we suffer under the same Presidency. We aren't enemies, and we should be mindful that we share more common ground on this topic, than not.

    That said, I have cultivated a good quality of life for myself, and that is of no thanks to Trump or any President, as far as I'm concerned. I don't have great hope that any President is going to create this Utopia, not because no one could, but that is too high of an expectation to place on any one person or administration.

    So, I'm not sure why you feel the need to position me here as a Trump supporter. I've adamantly stated in the past that I'm not, but that doesn't mean I'm ''okay'' with just anyone who might knock him off his throne.

    I'm weary of these exchanges, because in the end, all it seems anyway that you're concerned with, is creating this adversarial/confrontational type of conversation with me. I'm not your enemy, and for you to keep posting half truths about my posts, implying that I'm completely unaware of Trump's governing tactics, is dishonest. It just really is. When you wish to stop that, I'll continue to chat with you. Again, remember...we both want the same things, your ''solution'' is just different than mine. In the end, if you feel that an American voter who doesn't choose to wholeheartedly support Biden in this upcoming election or they're a piece of shit, that is more telling of your character than it is of mine.
     
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2020
  9. parmalee peripatetic artisan Valued Senior Member

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    Honestly... just learn how to read. Alternately, show me precisely where I even insinuate that you are a Trump supporter. The rest doesn't even merit a response.

    Also, grow some skin. It's a science forum (of sorts): everyone eventually finds themselves in an adversarial position. You know, that's kind of what debate, discussion and suchlike is about.

    I think I have made it clear in the past (though perhaps you have not encountered such) that I don't abide quaint notions of "politeness" and such bullshit. If you're looking for that kind of conversation, you best seek elsewhere.
     
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2020
  10. wegs Matter & Pixie Dust Valued Senior Member

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    You infer it. And I don’t really need to prove anything to you, as if I should be looking for your approval or something. You’re not the arbiter of truth.

    ETA: Save the grow a thick skin speech, that’s a tactic bullies use. I’m not looking for “polite discussion” - just not going to argue with a liar. If this is how you “win” debates, have at it. *shrug*
     
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2020
  11. parmalee peripatetic artisan Valued Senior Member

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    Well, now that you've called me a "liar," you certainly do need to show me precisely when and where I have lied.
     
  12. wegs Matter & Pixie Dust Valued Senior Member

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    Posting that I have no knowledge of what's going on in our government. I’m not a political enthusiast, but I’m not unaware. Implying such things seems dishonest, I’m not sure of a better word to use for it.
     
  13. parmalee peripatetic artisan Valued Senior Member

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    Again, learn how to read.

    I made no such claim. I stated that you have posted falsehoods and that you, of your own admission!, had not been paying attention to Trump's response, or lack thereof, to the pandemic. Stop lying!
     
  14. parmalee peripatetic artisan Valued Senior Member

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    On second thought: nevermind. It seems that you got into this very same thing just a few weeks back with Jeeves, and before that, with Bells, I believe, and before that, with iceaura. Perhaps there are others, even. Regardless, I will not participate in pandering to your victimhood.
     
  15. wegs Matter & Pixie Dust Valued Senior Member

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    But, does the ''system'' as it stands, tie the hands of perhaps well-meaning, moral politicians?

    Great point.

    It doesn't seem that Republicans and Democrats want to fix the problems that exist, together. There is this endless struggle for power, and the narratives twist and turn depending on who is controlling them, at the time. It's sadly remarkable that so many Trump supporters agreed with Trump, relating to downplaying Covid19, while Democrats took it more seriously. (All things being equal, of course there are outliers on both ends of the spectrum.) Republicans and Democrats can't even agree on science?

    Agree. You'd think such reasonable suggestions would be more popular in our government system.

    Word.
     
  16. wegs Matter & Pixie Dust Valued Senior Member

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    Why would I not be supportive of Trump then? Just on a hunch, I decide to not support the President? lol That doesn't make sense. I never suggested that I didn't know his lack of response. I'm experiencing all of these recent events, just like you. I'm not glued to the media reports on Trump's every move and reaction, I admit. But, that's a far cry from being unaware of his response and reaction to Covid19. I don't post on here all that often over the past couple of weeks, so minds grow in knowledge every day, and change every day. But, there's this vibe I get from you (as much as one can get virtually speaking) that you want people to prove themselves to you on here, that you are the arbiter of truth. You're not, in my mind, anyway.
     
  17. wegs Matter & Pixie Dust Valued Senior Member

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    And you with Seattle, and others. Such is forum life, eh?
     
  18. parmalee peripatetic artisan Valued Senior Member

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    So I guess I just imagined that you posted this:
    http://sciforums.com/threads/corona-virus-2019-ncov.162778/page-22#post-3624719

    http://sciforums.com/threads/corona-virus-2019-ncov.162778/page-23#post-3624910
     
  19. wegs Matter & Pixie Dust Valued Senior Member

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    Yea, at the time, when all this first hit, I thought that. It was reported that way in the beginning by many media outlets but as time went on, my mind changed. And more of the truth (not media spin) came out. Sue me?

    As it relates to the OT, I still don’t want to vote for either Trump or Biden. Nothing you’ve presented proves why I should vote for Biden except to say that Trump is so awful, I should vote for anyone with a pulse in order to remove the current evil. And maybe I will but I’m saddened that Biden who is not competent (too old and out of touch) in my opinion, is our only option.
     
  20. Seattle Valued Senior Member

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    6,488
    The Constitution does. The politicians make the rest of the system. Elect the ones you think will construct better rules and make reforms.


    The thing is what "Republican" and "Democrat" mean just depends on who you are electing. Mitch McConnell is still the same person even if he runs in the Green Party.

    Work for more campaign reform and that will have an effect on who runs, what their expectations are and how they will act.

    It's not that they are all terrible people. They are politicians and they need to get elected and re-elected. At present, everyone has to suck up to corporations for their donations. Reform that so that they are largely serving the voters and that's when people get what they deserve.

    Also keep in mind that even in a "perfect" system, there will always be many voters who disagree with you.
     
  21. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    30,810
    Define "terrible".

    There are currently no decent, honorable, and honest politicians in the national Republican Party. Not one. The closest you can come would be somebody like Mitt Romney.

    If you need verification of that, consider (for example) that all national Republican politicians support Mitch McConnell's behavior as Republican leader of the Senate.
     
  22. Seattle Valued Senior Member

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    6,488
    You have a thing for Republicans I guess. I was not referring to just Republicans. I was referring to all politicians.

    Although he isn't in office currently, I wouldn't consider John Kasich to be a "terrible person".
     
  23. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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    27,534
    Perhaps it's an old age thingy...but I must admit at times, I'm totally sick and tired on the tooing and froing in politics. In Australia, it is in many ways just as bad. We had around six Prime Ministers in 9 years! While my political leanings are slightly left of centre, I still try and maintain an open non partisan view of things, but speaking of American politics, I cannot for the life of me, understand how any government cannot support a national health scheme for all, and to a lesser extent, but still important, how so very lax your gun laws are, despite the regular occurrences of mass shootings.
     

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