If You're Unemployed, Try Politics

Discussion in 'Science & Society' started by Diode-Man, Jun 22, 2009.

  1. Diode-Man Awesome User Title Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,372
    The title should be a bumper sticker.

    I want to see people getting involved in politics. The interest on the national debt is huge and the bow of the economic ship is getting overloaded. Those bigs running the car companies give their executives millions and millions in bonuses, yet they can't keep their pathetic companies together.

    Either America wakes the hell up and takes hold of it's own political situation, or watch it get economically gutted and then politically flushed down the toilet by senators who are owned by big business.

    NEW SYSTEM: All bills must be written and explained in plain English. A wireless coded system will allow citizens to vote directly on the bills, removing congress completely using cell phones to vote. Each vote has a video screen of that citizen speaking his or her mind on the bill at hand. A large task force should be hired to view the videos to count each vote and inscribe word for word onto documents.

    We aren't running the Pony Express for gods sake, we get to change our government system into something more useful and purposeful.

    If big business won't let slip it's clutches, then we gotta pour some oil on their fingers.

    It's time to solve the housing "crisis." Mass produce sand bag dwellings covered in a cement shell. Design your own home and save tons of cash. Mass produce rammed earth homes. Go economical and stop freaking about garbage loans! Slap the bank in the face and make a sand bag dome house. And if you have to, slap your city officers in the face so they allow homes of this sort into the building code!

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    Last edited: Jun 22, 2009
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  3. Vic the Trader straight chillin Registered Senior Member

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    There's some really cool shit like that out there.

    I forget the name, but those strong tent-like military domes are becoming more common, and from the way they seem to work it apparently suffices as a permanent yet mobile and cheap living space.
     
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  5. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Staff Member

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    34,750
    Vagina Trees

    Last month Bill Maher made the point:

    No one can govern [California] because it's illegal to do it. We govern by ballot initiative. And we only write two kinds of those: spend money on things I like; and don't raise my taxes. We vote yes on gain, no on pain.

    This is why America's founders wanted a representative democracy. Because they knew if you gave the average guy the chance, he'd vote for a fantasy world with no taxes, free beer and vagina trees.

    Direct democracy is like any other scheme insofar as it works best if people are educated and understand their role in society. Otherwise, they'll run themselves into the ground. Quite clearly, Americans in general aren't ready for the responsibility.

    As for writing bills in plain English ... reading comprehension is declining in this country. I'm fine with a relatively fixed lexicon for writing laws. What I want, though, is for laws to be written to say what they are. Not, "In the fourth paragraph of 103.02.18(c), strike the word 'a' in the second sentence, and replace the word 'the' in the third sentence with 'these'; add 'and two ducks and a rubber ball' to 103.02.18(d)."
    ____________________

    Notes:

    Maher, Bill. "New Rules". Real Time With Bill Maher. New York, Home Box Office. Broadcast May 22, 2009. http://www.hbo.com/billmaher/new_rules/20090522.html
     
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  7. Fraggle Rocker Staff Member

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    Governing is like any other specialized kind of work: It takes a certain amount of aptitude, interest, training and experience to do it well. Government is management writ large, and what percentage of the people you know have the qualifications to be good managers?

    I'm not saying that our current politicized system is giving the jobs to the best-qualified people, but as bad as those people may be, I'm horrified at the thought of them abdicating and turning it over to the citizenry.

    Oh yeah, BTW I am a Californian so I have some experience in this matter.
     
  8. spaceChild Registered Member

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    94
    Allowing citizens the right to vote on bills is not a bad idea. The Majority of the populations opinion should be taken into account at least. Perhaps with similar guidelines as regular voting i.e registration, age limit. It could see the public becoming far happier with their government as well as making them more aware of what is happening with their country. They live there, shouldn't they get equal say?
     
  9. Xylene Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,398
    Love the house--excellent idea. Here's some links to something like it...

    http://www.eutopia.co.nz

    http://www.eutopia.co.nz/vision.php

    http://www.youtube/watch?v=jyLONqXbeEM

    On the main subject of politics, maybe the Federal Government should only get involved in people's lives if there's an emergency like flooding or earthquake, for calling out the National Guard to keep order. Other than that, the State governments look after their own local affairs without any reference to the FG. Taxes raised locally are kept in the area where they are raised, and used in that area, not sent off to Wahington DC to be wasted on BS projects.
     
  10. EntropyAlwaysWins TANSTAAFL. Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,123
    I am somewhat fond of an Idea of Robert Heinlein's, remove the age restriction on voting and replace it with a simple aptitude test that is presented to the voter when they enter the booth. The test consists of a simple puzzle that any high school student should be able to solve, e.g., something as simple as solving a quadratic equation.

    If the voter answers the question correctly the voting machine allows the person to vote, otherwise a red light flashes to indicate an incorrect answer and they are ejected from the booth.
     
  11. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Staff Member

    Messages:
    34,750
    But ... it's vagina trees!

    So no vagina trees for you?
     
  12. Stryder Keeper of "good" ideas. Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    13,101
    This is pretty much were Technocracy would come into play. What you would require is professionals to debate on the subject at hand and take questions from whoever has a query to any policy being suggested, people can then make an informed decision on that policy.

    Obviously it then raises the question of "who chooses the professionals?" etc but thats something any system would have to consider working in.

    Incidentally I'm mulling over what to do for the eventual UK Election. You see I'm pretty upset about how things have been over here and have an idea of how to pretty much reshape politics completely. It involves using equipment that currently most assume is myth. I'm sure you've heard me harp on from time to time about mind control equipment, well there is actually a way to read the human mind and interact with it, most governments have had equipment for a while which they've "toyed" with but kept quite from the public.

    I suggest the creation of a party, which is still to be named (say "The Transparent Party" for now) where every member of that party is observed using this previously "non existant/fairy tale to the public" equipment. Every thought, decision and action would be recorded and made completely publicly available 5 years after it's recorded. This means every politician in this party would not be able to lie, would not be allowed to be corrupt, because obviously if they are and the public eventually finds out through the press and public trolling their archives for dirt, it would mean jail time.

    I'm pretty sure most politicians that currently exist would rather walk than adopt it as the system for lessening corruption.
     
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2009
  13. Billy T Use Sugar Cane Alcohol car Fuel Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    23,198
    Not that I believe the machine exists but if it did, they would just hire another technician to "fix it."

    BTW Brazil spends more than 5% of GDP on govenment people!
    What is in elsewhere?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 27, 2009
  14. Fraggle Rocker Staff Member

    Messages:
    24,690
    I don't even understand what that's supposed to mean. I've never had fantasies about having sex with an organism of another species, much less one of another kingdom.

    One of the biggest and certainly most common problems with democracy is that it tends to degrade into majoritarianism, less charitably known as "tyranny of the majority." Although it also sometimes becomes tyranny of the charming, tyranny of the most competitive, or tyranny of the best liars. In an anarchy it would more likely degrade into tyranny of the most powerful.
    According to InfoPlease government spending at all levels in the USA (federal, state, and municipal--which includes cities, counties, school districts, mosquito abatement districts, flood control districts, rapid transit districts, etc.) accounts for slightly more than one-fourth of our economy.

    Brazil is starting to sound like a libertarian paradise.

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  15. Absane Rocket Surgeon Valued Senior Member

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    Thanks for the bumper sticker idea. I'm going to print a bunch off and sell them.
     
  16. Billy T Use Sugar Cane Alcohol car Fuel Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    23,198
    I think the "Brazil spends more than 5% of GDP on government people" is just the federal level employees. As in US, schools etc. are local expenses. President Lula has done many good things, but with his left wing background and ideas that the government needs to make jobs he has greatly expanded federal positions. Also all Brazilian political groups make government positions as a way to increase their vote for their party in the next election, but Lula has done so much more than normal.

    One recent idea of his I like is to simply give money to the poor as a stimulus to the economy instead of tax relief to all and industries. The various tax reductions already given have cost the government many times more than the very successful "Bosal Famila" program. It can only give small sum to families with kids in school. This recent idea of his is to at least while stimulus is needed to drop that requirement. Sort of like Ben Bernach's drop money from helicopters over poor neighborhoods stimulus idea of years ago.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 30, 2009
  17. Diode-Man Awesome User Title Registered Senior Member

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    1,372
    I like the sound of it. For leaders and politicians...

    The problem is that it would be scary if some one made a bad component, purposefully or on accident, in order to influence the data output of the "mind machine." If anyone manufacturing parts or programming for it decided they wanted to make the machine lie about what some one is thinking you'd be in a bad position indeed.

    As a point against corruption, like any tool, it could be easily turned for evil..... Where is Yoda these days?

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  18. Asguard Kiss my dark side Valued Senior Member

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    is it really that hard for people to read Bills and Acts?

    This is a reasonably short Act so i think i will post some of it and see who actually has difficulty reading it

    Seems quite clear to me:shrug:
     
  19. Billy T Use Sugar Cane Alcohol car Fuel Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    23,198
    That may not give an income either:

    "The recession that began in December 2007 dealt a blow to state finances as rising unemployment, cutbacks in consumer spending and a $7 trillion plunge in the U.S. stock market last year slashed tax collections. States faced a combined $166 billion in revenue gaps that had to be closed as they tried to craft budgets, the Center on Budget and Policy Priorities said.

    “We have no idea when it will end,” said Mississippi Governor Haley Barbour, referring to the drop in tax revenue, which he said was as much as 15 percent below estimates in the final months of the fiscal year. Barbour, a Republican, signed a budget after the Legislature passed it late last night.

    California Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger said today he will shut down government offices for the first three Fridays of every month and force lawmakers into an emergency session to tackle the state’s growing budget deficit.

    The Legislature’s failure to produce a budget before the fiscal year began pushed the size of the spending gap to more than $26 billion from $24 billion, he said. Without revisions to account for a 20 percent drop in revenue, California is set tomorrow to begin paying some of its bills with IOUs to avoid running out of cash. ..."

    From: http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aUBPQyZcuxPM
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 2, 2009
  20. Diode-Man Awesome User Title Registered Senior Member

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    1,372
    I don't know exactly how this economy is going to continue forward with these levels of inflation and mass debt. There is a huge group of rich people who are getting massive interest payments on the national debt. We aren't even paying the debt off, we're just paying the interest on it.

    Interesting?

    Sounds like interest-slave-labor.

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  21. Billy T Use Sugar Cane Alcohol car Fuel Valued Senior Member

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    Here is a great idea (Gee, I'm such a modest guy!) for your political platform if you decide to run. Simply say:

    "If I am elected, the first law I will pass is to make it madatory that bonus over $10,000 be paid only in "toxic asset" notes."

    That will be popular with at least 98% of the voters, especially when you point out big corporations will still pay many bonuses subject to the new law and thus make a market for the toxic assets which now no one wants to buy.

    So after that you say:

    "Elect me! - I know how to solve the banking crsis, make loans available again, and get the economy growing, creating jobs, etc. and it will not costs one cent of your tax dollars!!! ... Enough with these tax-payer financed "bailouts" for the same guys who made this mess!!!!"

    Close with:

    "I'm for God, sound money, growth and prosperity - are you with me? God bess us and the US. - He will if we all trunout and vote for this sensible plan.
    Do your part - vote (rain or shine). It is God's will. - He gave this plan to me in a dream.

    --------------------
    P.S.
    Hell, if GWB were to run again on that as his platform, even I might vote for him!
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 7, 2009
  22. DRZion Theoretical Experimentalist Valued Senior Member

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    1,046
    Its possible you would simply get more naive tools in tools in the government, easily controlled and content with their lives. Maybe a good model for society?
     
  23. stargazzer Registered Member

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    14
    Hey ....don't forget Graham Bell..Louis Pascal or maybe Edison, well why ? When the great inventors made thier contribution did it come along with a tailor made scheme to
    litterly rape the bucks out of the common folks. Well, why not ? What does any clear thinking person think of the brain-dead "I wanna be a Billionaire mindset" of the past 20yrs " Every merchant or sports player or what have you wants not just more but
    more, more , more. We have a minimum wage that basically acts as an allowance for bus money while our low IQ proprietors ect don't catch the deal with the circulation of general currencey. So, where are the extra wages going to go ? to Brazil , Mexico, France on pleasure trips....I don't think so, more like an extra diaper or to the dentist for a proper cleaning. Too bad I have to explain that to the intellects. The problem my friends is the distribution and the fear. Fear of loss of personal portfolio's, which none the less could and do exceed million's. The greater the portfolio the greater the fear. So, what was Graham Bell or Edison's or Eienstein's portfolio ? Wern't these guys the "real" innovators ? The economy can recover from within but will not as long as the citizen's all wanna be billionaires. Hey Mr Rich.....Tell me....If your the richest man in the world ,
    How is it not possible for you to be , as well, the GREEDIEST PERSON in the world
     

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