If we clone neanderthals, will they have legal rights?

Discussion in 'Science & Society' started by S.A.M., Apr 15, 2009.

  1. legalrights Registered Member

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    I’m bracing for a long list of objections from the world’s self-appointed keepers of bioethics, who must see this new Neanderthal issue as a research bonanza. I can imagine an anti-Neanderthal alliance between the religious right and the religious left.
    But I’m afraid I can’t see the problem. If we discovered a small band of Neanderthals hidden somewhere, we’d do everything to keep them alive, just as we try to keep alive so many other endangered populations of humans and animals — including man-biting mosquitoes and man-eating polar bears. We’ve also spent lots of money reintroducing animals into ecosystems from which they had vanished. Shouldn’t be at least as solicitous to our fellow hominids?

    What do you think? Should we try to resurrect a Neanderthal? And if so, what kind of precautions should we take, and what kind of lives should we help them lead? Let’s assume we’d do our best to treat them well. How much would they enjoy living today? How much would we learn from one another? source

    I agree Neanderthals must be resurrected. But before that, we must decide what we want to do with them. Imagine everything works out and we have alive and healthy baby. How would you raise him/her? Merely watching the thing grows? That would be cruel and absolutely uninformative. Why? Because Homo Sapiens are a product of their society. We learn so much from our parents and our school and our friends and so on. Would you raise a human baby without contact with the outside world? Without information for its brain? I doubt so. And even if you do it, that won’t tell you ANYTHING about its potential and true capabilities-they will manifest only if information is provided in appropriate for its age way.

    That’s why I think we first should decide what do we want from that baby. Do we want to see how it grows in its natural environment- that could be hard-we don’t know precisely what its environment was and we cannot simulate its family.

    The other way is simple-raise it as you would raise a human baby in controlled environment. Let it have tutors, teachers, even parents, if possible. Make it a person and then compare with a modern person. That’s the correct experiment for me. Since we cannot recreate the past (because we don’t know it very well), it’s best to recreate the present and see what will happen. The creature would either have difficulties understanding and would act as either a monkey or retarded (nothing unexpected and clearly we wouldn’t then rob it from its life) or the creature will become a walking talking person. In which case, we must be prepared to accept him/her as a person and admit all the human rights s/he deserves.

    And I think that would make a lovely experiment!
     
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  3. cluelusshusbund + Public Dilemma + Valued Senior Member

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    "A lovely esperiment"???... well... it woud be a very interestin esperiment.!!!

    But i thank it woud be moraly problamatic to intentionaly create an animal which has the potential to be very human-like for the sole purpos of esperimentaton.!!!
     
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2009
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  5. X-Man2 We're under no illusions. Registered Senior Member

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    Even if cloning becomes much easier and almost an everyday thing,is there some Neanderthal DNA around to do it? Is there dna in some amber we found?

    When will resurrecting the Mammoth be possible? We have at least one good specimen.


    PS -When do I get a beautiful women clone of my own?
     
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  7. cluelusshusbund + Public Dilemma + Valued Senior Member

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    Do you see human clones as bein property.???
     
  8. The Esotericist Getting the message to Garcia Valued Senior Member

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    No, our society would not give them legal rights. They don't give children rights, they don't give any of the great apes rights. until a little over a hundred years ago they didn't give women and minorities equal rights. It is preposterous to think that a different species would have equal rights.

    What we need to worry about is, will genetically perfected humans have more rights the naturally born humans? Off topic though, new thread.
     
  9. X-Man2 We're under no illusions. Registered Senior Member

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    Your kidding right? Cause I sure was about the Women clone.Geez.
     
  10. cluelusshusbund + Public Dilemma + Valued Senior Member

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    Originally Posted by cluelusshusbund
    Do you see human clones as bein property.???

    No i didnt know if you was kiddin or not... people can have all sorts of ideas.!!!
     
  11. mike47 Banned Banned

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    If they have the capacity of human intelligence then they are to be treated as humans .
     
  12. baftan ******* Valued Senior Member

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    Legal rights are very much related with legal responsibilities, and necessarily “capabilities”. This clone will be subject to many tests and challenges throughout his or her time, like any other human newborn: ability to learn a language, showing certain level of cognitive and physical efficiency, etc. If he or she passes these tests as any other human being, the appearance does not make any change to the legal situation; otherwise this would be simply the racism. I think humans have passed this stage in general. That’s why a kind of “divine coincidence” occurred and we obtained DNA and cloning knowledge and technology when we -in general- developed today’s matching –or fitting- social and legal understanding.

    And we are so sensitive now; we will need to create a partner for this clone. Let’s call our initial clone as “Adam”. So the required partner could be named as “Eve”, and the laboratory with a nice yard (full of apple trees) could be called as “Garden of Eden”. Did we create them So what? We are cloning for the purpose of scientific research, we must see how they had (have) sex. We want to see how they raise their child. Then we will declare our glory: “We humans have reached so upper limits, we could even raise the dead, bring back our history, blah, blah, blah.” No problem, we wanted to go to Moon, we did it; we wanted to make H-Bomb, and we did it too. The first creators would be executed because of some core-human-value fart, then they will be applauded by next generations. Excuses and legal shit would eventually catch up.

    Legal rights? If they can drive and swear at the system, they will definitely be responsible from their pissing on electric fence. We simply do not know how could a Neanderthal baby be raised by humans? We don’t have Neanderthal mother’s milk, and we don’t know if we feed it with homo sapiens’ or cow milk. This attempt would poison Adam and Eve. I believe it is going to be like Dolly the Sheep case: Many accidents until presenting final specimen.

    Who said it is easy to play God? This is going to be a carnival for Legal firms and TV shows, Science tourism and for everybody. Bring it on...
     
  13. mike47 Banned Banned

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    It has nothing to do with god or gods .
    It is science and science has no limits .
    If we limit science we just cheat ourselves of the unknown .
    Scientists fail and one day everything will be a success .
    Jesus, Moses , Muhammad....etc gave us a life of tents, horses, donkeys.....and misery; science gave us electricity, Internet, planes, vehicles....etc....etc.
    Compare and respect science with no limits at all .

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  14. Nyr Registered Senior Member

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    Hmm.. I admittedly don't have a clear opinion on the actual legal rights question, but I can say this: How do you know that science has no limits? Not only is the demarkation of scientific knowledge a philosophical question, not having a straight and simple answer, but even looking at it practically, we're currently driving towards apocalypse. Sitting back and assuming that science will lead us onto the right path, that science will always lead to good is just like assuming that God will save us all. Only science with accountability has no limits. There's no way to say that science will always be used responsibly, or that science won't create something that it itself isn't capable of coping with, or that science has an answer to each and every question presented to it.
     

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