If something cannot be observed by definition, does it exist ?

If something cannot be observed by definition, does it exist ?

I actually have a point to make but i want to see what you guys think of this first.

 

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Yes. Quantum principle dont apply to everyday perception of occured events.

 

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I mean it absolutely cannot be observed by anything or anyone ever. How would that exist ?

 

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Is this getting us anywhere or is it really completely pointless?


Yes!!!! it would still exist.

 

'observed' for me is has too much of a visual connotation. And scientists posit the existence of things all the time which cannot be observed but whose effects can. Does this count?

If something cannot be experienced or whose effects cannot be experienced by definition, does it exist ?

This seems a better version of the question. But I will guess you are going after God and my sentence does not make your case so easy.

 

if I met you, I would have no way of observing your consciousness. I could see behavior. I could do some deductive reasoning that says you probably have something like what I have, but I could not observe your consciousness. Can I say that, by definition, you are not conscious or assertions that you have consciousness are not justified?

 

Sorry to steal your bate and swim away Enmos. I'm sure there will be plenty of fish along later though.

 

Yes, thats a better version. Thanks Grantywanty

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Geez... sorry.. i guess

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Im not trying to push your buttons here GhostofMaxwell, but can you give an example ?
I mean HOW would you know something exists if you cant observe/experience (or whatever) it ?

...Do purple hippos with wings exist ?

From what you say they do...

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I am certainly not after God as i am an atheist.

I got this idea from the Schrödinger Experiment discussed in another thread:

And dont laugh...

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The universe, by definition, is all there is. So that means there cant be anything like an observer of the universe.
Not even humans count because we are (part of) the universe. It would be like saying the universe exists because it exists.

Im prepared to get my ass kicked on this, so lets hear it...

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Because your question states that he exists!

Maybe if you imagine a solitary alien floating about among the voids of the vacuume somewhere in the distance universe. Just because he has never influenced his presence on anyone or anything doesnt alter the fact that he exists.

 

OK, lets try again.

Something is believed to exist, yet cannot be observed/experienced by definition. Nor can any effects be observed/experienced by definition.
Does it exist ?

I hope i stated it better this time.

 

I got how you meant the question previously. No matter how you restate it, my answer is still yes! it exists. Observation in any form(visual or otherwise ) is not a prerequisit for existance. Even in the quantum world, something exists before it is observed it's just not resolved which state.

 

But effectively you say anything we can come up with exists then... God included

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No! Im saying that just because we dont know something exist doesn't change that it will be out there somewhere. I'm saying nothing about us creating any fantasy of our choosing and it will also be out there somewhere.

 

Well then.. whats the 'it' youre talking about ? Winged purple hippo's ?

 

What?????



Isn't the point that we dont know the thing in your question exists, so how in the hell would we know what it is?

 

You are presuming it exists before applying the "noone can observe it" thing.
Dont presume it exists, and we'll talking about the same thing.

Something is believed to exist, yet cannot be observed/experienced by definition. Nor can any effects be observed/experienced by definition.
Does it exist ?

 

Im presuming it exists because your own question presumes it exist you spoon.