If I am immortal, then I will die sometime in the future

Discussion in 'General Philosophy' started by Speakpigeon, Nov 9, 2019.

?

In your personal opinion, do you feel that the implication is valid or invalid?

Poll closed Dec 9, 2019.
  1. Valid

    40.0%
  2. Not valid

    40.0%
  3. I don't know

    20.0%
  4. The implication doesn't make sense

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  1. Speakpigeon Valued Senior Member

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    You must have somehow misread what I said. So here it is again:

    When we discuss the validity of logical arguments, we assume the proximate definitions of the words used in the argument.

    That suggests to you that I am saying here that the meaning of words are irrelevant?!
    Whoa.
    EB
     
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  3. Speakpigeon Valued Senior Member

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    Immortal
    1. Not subject to death: immortal deities; the immortal soul.​

    But we sure can all make up stories.
    EB
     
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  5. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member

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    "I was immortal until the day I died"

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  7. Speakpigeon Valued Senior Member

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    Self-contradictory.
    EB
     
  8. origin In a democracy you deserve the leaders you elect. Valued Senior Member

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    I think he meant you at irrelevant.
     
  9. spidergoat Liddle' Dick Tater Valued Senior Member

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    There is the concept of immortality in the abstract, and the apparent reality that it cannot exist as long as the universe itself is finite. But relative immortality would likely be close enough for most people who wish it.
     
  10. TheFrogger Banned Valued Senior Member

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    I believe that SpeakPigeon is questioning whether an immortal must be mortal to begin with. I also believe that to be true. Something must be mortal to become immortal. For example, should someone believe that they will die, would this remain true, forever? If this does remain true forever, they will have gained immortality. However, the fact that they have gained immortality means they will not die. The acceptance of one's death provides an eternal paradox in which one cannot die, providing this is what YOU have thought.

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  11. Speakpigeon Valued Senior Member

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    If this was what I had wanted to ask, the conditional would have been this one:

    If I am immortal, then I was mortal sometime in the past

    Instead, it is:

    If I am immortal, then I will die sometime in the future

    I think it is clearly not the same meaning.
    EB
     
  12. TheFrogger Banned Valued Senior Member

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    2,175
    By accepting your death, "I will die" you become immortal.

    Since the creation of eternity creates immortality (the former traveller can never catch the present one, because both are continuing at the same rate)...

    --->--->

    ...then should an acceptance of death remain true, FOREVER, you will never die. But should this be true, you have already stated that you WILL die, which has gained you immortality, meaning you will never die. Such a situation becomes a paradox whereby an acceptance of your death does not create time-traversal, but DOES create an immortal situation. BUT you must come to this conclusion ALONE, simply because you have read SpeakPigeon's post and decided upon the truth does not mean you are immortal. You must come to the conclusion YOURSELF.

    SpeakPigeon, Jesus Christ may have come to that conclusion himself, but in retrospect we can now see that HE IS DEAD. Perhaps he would have had more success if he accepted that he was dead, or an animal, or even a flower.

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  13. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

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    TheFrogger:

    You're not really addressing the thread topic. You sound like you're rambling.
     
  14. TheFrogger Banned Valued Senior Member

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    Hi JamesR. The statement, "I will die" does not remain true forever. In the future we may state that, "He is dead." From a future perspective things may seem different.

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  15. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member

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    that is actually a rather intriguing way for looking at it...
    Even at the point of death you hold the notion "I will die" at what point does it change to "I am dead"?

    Interesting twist to the reasoning...
     
  16. TheFrogger Banned Valued Senior Member

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    I do not know at what moment the change occurs. However, perhaps it takes others (from the future) to state that, "you are dead."

    I am amazed by the cowardice of some when I tell them I am convinced I will die. Some state, "we all will die." Translation: "if I die, I will kill everyone."
     
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  17. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

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    Not if he is immortal. Don't forget the thread topic.
     
  18. TheFrogger Banned Valued Senior Member

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    Hi again JamesR. Thanks for the reply.

    It is my understanding that SpeakPigeon claimed it was his acceptance of his own mortality that made him immortal. Is this correct SpeakPigeon?

    Should something be true FOREVER, I.e. should someone CREATE infinity, they gain immortality. However the statement, "I will die" is not true, forever. Should it be true, then the person becomes immortal, however they have stated that they will die, so they cannot be immortal. As such the statement, "I will die" should gain one immortality, without being true, forever.

    As we now know, the statement is false in the sense that the person may in fact, "be dead" (from a future perspective.)
     
  19. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member

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    Try:
    "We are immortal until we die..."
    or "How does one prove they are immortal?"
     
  20. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    You spelled "spelt" wrong.....

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  21. TheFrogger Banned Valued Senior Member

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    It's, "spelt."

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