If Hitler was cloned, what do you think would be the worlds reaction?

Discussion in 'Biology & Genetics' started by thecurly1, Jul 1, 2001.

  1. thecurly1 Registered Senior Member

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    If Adolf Hitler was cloned, using today's methods, what do you think would happen to the clone, the doctor who cloned him, and what do you think would be the world's reaction. Sadly we may have to deal with something like this one day. Just wondering what your oppinons are.

    THANK YOU ALL.
     
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  3. KneD Le Penseur Registered Senior Member

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    you must have read the novel 'the boys from brazil' from levin.....

    I think the doctor who cloned him will be locked up, not because of this, but probably he is a war-criminal too...

    And a whole army of psychiatrists and scientists will enquire the hitler-clone.
    A lot of scientists want to clone a human-body and do research on it, but nobody is allowed to do so because of the human-right.
    But when we have the possibility to do research, why not.
    And even with an interresting person like Hitler.

    Btw, when we know who the clone is, he can't be dangerous any more, he will never have power.
     
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  5. thecurly1 Registered Senior Member

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    Thank you for responding

    I actually saw the movie, "the Boys from Brazil" with Gregory Peck made in the seventies. It was hauntingly realistic, especially now that we are able to clone mammals, and probably humans. I was wondering what people's reactions to such an experiment, if made sucessful would be. I'd really like to hear from others on this one.
     
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  7. goofyfish Analog By Birth, Digital By Design Valued Senior Member

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    Quit Cloning Around

    There are dictators, despots and tyrants in every age - cloning one of these individuals will not produce a duplicate other than in appearance. An individual's personna is formed through life experiences in combination with possible genetic predispositions.

    Clone Hitler? Bad. But only because of the sociological questions regarding the use of this technology.

    --------
    my .02
     
  8. thecurly1 Registered Senior Member

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    I'm well aware that cloning Hitler wouldn't nessicarily make him evil.

    Society, and upbrining would make him evil. But I wasn't even referring to weather he would be good or bad, just what the reaction would be to a seemingly good version of the most evil man since King Herod.
     
  9. goofyfish Analog By Birth, Digital By Design Valued Senior Member

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    the "Hitler Connection"

    (pardon me while I dust off my soapbox...)


    The issue of who is being cloned would unfortunately cloud the basic feat itself. The world's reaction? Posed moral outrage. Groups that have no concerns regarding the horrors of Auschwitz-Birkenau and their like could certainly use the "Hitler Connection" to further a platform against cloning. Although 55+ years have passed, humankind still experiences a visceral reaction when confronted with the inhumanity that was orchestrated by Hitler.

    My reaction would be outrage also, because of man's proven inability to act responsibly. The problem with wondrous technological advances is that, once out of the bag, they quickly go from being a means to some noble and worthy end (relieving the suffering of poor, sick children, for example), to becoming an end in themselves (developing and using them simply because we can).

    In the twentieth century especially, we have proven ourselves to be too long on technological reach and much too short on the grasp of moral responsibility. We need only look to nuclear, chemical and biological weapons for proof.
     
  10. HOWARDSTERN HOWARDSTERN has logged out.... Registered Senior Member

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    <font color="blue">If he were cloned by ethical scientists/people and raised by "ethical people", then I am sure that he would quite possibly become a valuable asset to humanity, or least would be no worse than your "run of the mill" member of the DNC!

    It isn't the genes necessarily that make a bad apple. It has more to do with the emotional environment & upbringing of the child, who becomes the adult. Ol honest Abe Lincoln might well have become a blood thirsty tyrant if he were raised in Adolf's place. </font color>
     
  11. Boogle Registered Member

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    Why shouldn't he be cloned?

    After all, who better than Hitler to be the first one to clone? Makes sense in a sociological way. Now that whoever is developing the technology of cloning as a disease prevention tool is wrapped up in the benefits, when you weight it next to the extremely unethical ways linked to cloning, why would the scientist have any problem at all with this? After all, they first-handedly ignored all the ethics to begin with (and they DID, are or will) in order to acheive a state of "therapies" or the goal of one such state ignors others. And if ethics are just beliefs of any individual (the typical scientist putting a logical stunt on beliefs in the scientific realm) what if the scientist doesn't want to clone Hitler when someone pays him/her to (would you clone Hitler for money?), what if the scientist disagrees? Is he not then creating his own system of beliefs or prejiduces. Is that the point when co-workers escort him outside so he can throw up only for them to take over his shift, thus re-inforcing the realm of logic and science. What the hell makes science so much better than beleifs, be they widely or privatly enforced?
     
  12. Stryder Keeper of "good" ideas. Valued Senior Member

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    Even if you did clone hitler you would just be left with a guy that might look a bit like him, and suffer certain heiraditary diseases and ailments.

    He wouldn't be the same man as dictated by the circumstances, namely fathered by a doctor, mother by a testube etc (born in a vat)

    I can say there would be no reason to clone him at all, as you couldn't bring justice on his clone, that would be like blaming a child for his fathers actions, which you can't, although they are related his father is responsible not the child.

    So my reaction of this is: Oh a clone. tha'ts contriversial
     
  13. MuliBoy psykyogi Registered Senior Member

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    I´d feel damn sorry for the Hitlerclone.
    I mean this would not be a person connected to the holocaust in any way, but still he would be seen as just that.

    Wouldn´t that be one of the most horrid fates? Be born as a likeness of the worlds most hated man?

    I don´t find it too unlikely that unknowing clones will be around shortly, monitored since birth. Feeling like they´re stars in the Truman show.

    Can´t see what is controversial about clones really.
    Babies are cheaper

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  14. Bebelina Feminazi Messiah Valued Senior Member

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    MuliBoy...

    Who are you cloned from?

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    Babies are cheaper....

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  15. MuliBoy psykyogi Registered Senior Member

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    Re: MuliBoy...

    I am a cheap armysurplus fat clone with a dysfunctional association centre.
    But I was raised in a happy home so it´s not that obvious

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  16. Bebelina Feminazi Messiah Valued Senior Member

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    Awww....

    How cute....

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  17. Blandine Registered Member

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    I think the Hitler clone would be a very unhappy child because nobody would treat him normally. Some crazy Neonazis would try to make him a leader of their movement and the others would feel quite strange if they saw him, especially Jewish people. But neither the praise of the one side nor the fear and hate of the other side would have anything to do with the child's own personality. In my opinion, there is nothing good in cloning human beings. They would always be seen as belonging to their "older self", to be used to supply others with organs or to be the substitute of a natural-born child, but with the burden to look exactly like one of their parents. Politicians should try to stop those scientists who do not regard the consequences of their experiments.
     
  18. Ana Registered Senior Member

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    The world's reply? Majority would disapprove, neo-nazis would raise a statue in honor of the "doctor."

    My reply? Sick thought. I agree though that although genes may predispose an individual to certain illnesses and perhaps we'll find out how extensive they predispose people to a particular personality...nurture plays a BIG role.

    In regards to racism...my belief is that it is nurture that makes ALL the difference...but I feel sorry for the guy that looks like or reminds anyone of Hitler...yet I also think that a new human being even if he is cloned from a "bad" source...is an entirely different individual and shouldn't suffer for the mistakes or horrendous acts carried out by it's genetic source, no more than a child should be punished for the mistakes or wrong doings of his/her parents.
     
  19. machaon Registered Senior Member

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    Re-Hitler

    If Hitler were to be cloned, it would provide a priceless oppurtunity to gather data pertaining to the infamous nature vs nurture debate. Hell, what would be the chances of his clone
    killing ANOTHER six million people?
     
  20. Ana Registered Senior Member

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    do we really wanna find out??? do we really NEED to find out?

    geez, man. Well, first that is an ethical issue you've brought up and second....you already answered the question...."what are the chances" tells me that a lot of it has to do with upbringing but....really....let's consider the chances...under the "right" (wrong more like it) circumstances, an individual can be raised into a type of "Hitler" --where do serial killers come from? The circumstances being upbringing and possibly predisposition to mental disorders or a pre-existing mental disorder (as considered by mainstream society).

    Do we want to find out? How would we go about it? Clone several Hitlers and raise them differently? Consider the moral and ethical aspects of this "potential" study. Is that fair to the cloned human who's only fault is having the same genetic makeup as Hitler and that fault not even being his own but our own? What would we do with the outcome of the study? Would we do things differently in respect to racism?

    If it is nature for people like Hitler, what do we do? Let 'em go, put 'em up in a condo at the local psych ward, parade them in front of the families of the people they harm and sing "nature, nature"? What if it is only nurture? How do we stop it? Hitler was racist and we've been trying to prevent racism for the longest time....racism stems from ignorance.....so we need to educate people...and that is already being done (maybe more needs to be done but hell, we are working on it). That has already been established, why do we need a Hitler-clone to get our asses off our chairs and pitch in to go against bad parental currents and educate children against racism? If it is both, nature and nurture, how would that help anything? Racism is one of many things that "go wrong" in society, finding out where it "came from" doesn't necessarily mean that we will know where the other problems of society come from, right?

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  21. Riomacleod Registered Senior Member

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    Unless he was a little child that walked around with the thin moustache and in a third reich uniform or wore a sign that said "hitler clone" I imagine it would be hard to tell him from any other child. This issue was discussed at some length in a PBS documentary. You could clone millions of ancient people and if raised in the US, they'd be indistinguishable from normal people. It's not like the clone of an ancient egyptian will run off to the desert and start building pyramids. (although I can just imagine, the clone is at home, at the dinner table, making pyramids from his mashed potatoes, muttering "this means something") I'm not really sure I'm for human cloning, but I wouldn't be any more bothered that they used hitler cells to do it, for a few reasons:

    1)Hitler was a puppet of the heads of the Nazi party.. until he went insane.
    2)The fact that he came into power was the result of a conjunction of a humiliated, impoverished Germany, an arrogant Europe and US, the inherent idiocy of people when they get into groups larger than 3, and a power-hungry political party.
    3)His charisma and intelligence were more likely influenced by his environment than by any particular genetic code.
    4)If any groups do decide he's their reborn savior or the devil escaped death, it'll just go to show how patently absurd they are. And, frankly, I'm all for making groups look hypocritical and stupid.
    5)If they took hitler and made him look less obvious and shave off the moustache, I think you'd find that he looks pretty much like any other short german man. I wouldn't be able to pick him out of a lineup, that's for sure.

    The crux of cloning is that we must realize that these are people we're playing around with now. Without getting into the "when is it a person" debate, suffice to say that a clone is no different than any other person. They would have the same natural rights as any other human being: life, liberty, property. Another post mentioned that we could send clones into space and not worry because they're "just clones". I'm sure that the cloned people that get strapped into the spaceship would feel differently, though.
    I think that the most appaling part of WWII wasn't the holocaust, but the medical experiments done on the Jewish people. Specifically I remember testing on a human's resistance to a vacuum, and that we know that we can survive a higher vacuum is it's gradually applied all came from the disgusting research done on what were considered "sub-human" human beings. It would be horrid if we began considering cloned human beings similarly, and began treating them like really big gunea pigs (sp).
     
  22. Stryder Keeper of "good" ideas. Valued Senior Member

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    The way I've seen Cloning portrayed, I don't think the what has been done in the states is that an individual is being cloned to grow another.

    Infact I think the concept is something like this:

    Take one Fertilized Human Embryo and clone (Similar to how a human embreo would split to create a twin within a mothers womb)

    The reason for the creation of a multiple of these Embreos is so to have a "Standard" Embryo that can be manipulated incrimentally, so that each embryo is applied a small change with one as the "Control".

    None of them get to the point of growing brain cells or consciousness, infact at that point in time they are a mixture of a small amount of DNA from a father ad a majority from the mother.
    (In reality they would be much similar to a cancerous growth than a living human being since it can not feed or breath for itself)

    Of course if you were talking of some months down the lie when the features are begining to take shape and they are nearing birth then I would class them as human. (Although I know this would upset many females that might have suffered miscarriages, or are infertile and for that I am truly sorry)

    If you take the view that it is murder, then you should understand that the Embryo doesn't die once, it's split into a whole bunch of them that all get slain before they come into being, I suppose you could say it dies a thousand times.
     
  23. Chagur .Seeker. Registered Senior Member

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    Riomacleod ...

    Don't forget the hypothermia studies that were done to
    help save the lives of German pilots who had to 'ditch'
    in the English Channel.

    The data accumulated is still the criteria against which
    protection during long immersion is guaged.
     

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