If God is real, how would you know?

Discussion in 'Religion' started by Jan Ardena, Apr 8, 2020.

  1. pluto2 Valued Senior Member

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    1,030
    The fact is that this God idea is a joke.

    God obviously doesn't exist because if there was a God then he would have created a better world with much better people and not this shitty, arrogant, cruel and passive-aggressive people that we are forced to live with now.
     
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  3. arfa brane call me arf Valued Senior Member

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    Yes, that's my experience. Any idea of what God is turns out to be a joke, usually. Sometimes it's a bit difficult to see the humour, try it with the God that Europeans took along with them on the Crusades to the Holy Land, or the one that inspired the Spanish Inquisition. But hey, feel free with your own jokes.

    Hence my personal philosophy that God is not an idea, and unless you want to be a stand-up comic, ideas are usually mistaken.
    Ok, but how useful is your God, if all you can do is complain about the ideas you get?
     
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2020
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  5. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    So stop being one of those people. Change starts with you.
     
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  7. Xelasnave.1947 Valued Senior Member

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    If only the world was populated by folk who took on the concept of accepting personal responsibility...would that be better?
    Alex
     
  8. arfa brane call me arf Valued Senior Member

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    If you go for a hike through a forest, or along a beach, or try scaling a mountain, whatever, why does it make you feel like you've done something rewarding, after the fact?

    Why also, is thinking about it something we generally all avoid doing; being clinical and emotionless about the experience--what you see and hear primarily--doesn't add anything to it?
    In fact, you might justify why you do something that, on the face of it isn't very productive, as being about not thinking, but just doing; engaging in an activity that lets you unburden some of those day to day cares and worries, or, whatever.

    So, it's a fairly safe conclusion that you don't want ideas getting in the way, while you do things like that. The idea is about "getting away from it all", resetting something, say.

    But why do we really do it, or want to?
     
  9. Xelasnave.1947 Valued Senior Member

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    8,183
    In my current situation of being part cripple I set goals and tasks past my ability to have a good reason to get out of bed.

    With my condition the easy option is to give up and just lay in bed to avoid the leg pain but I find it most satisfying to do my astrophotograghy as it has had me build two small observatories, each of which once would have only been a weekends work, but now I have to employ hoists, rollers levers and much time to do very ordinary tasks.

    The setting up of an astrophotograghy rig is also beyond my capability and yet I chip away and get it done..things like the processing is so taxing on my now limited brain power and motivation but when I look at what I have achieved I somehow feel life is better than ever before.

    I am now setting up another observatory, which was erected by the guy who sold it to me but in it I am setting up a 16 inch telescope that most guys won't tackle, not because of the price of the thing, but because the long focal length means you have to be very dedicated to get the mount to track without leaving round stars in your image. Frankly I am not confident that I can do it but at least I know I will have tried ...and if I can make it work maybe offer encouragement to others.

    Young Pluto needs to get out and do stuff. I could have ended up like him..seeing only defects that are hard to accept and just giving up.

    I am 73, poorly educated, spend many days in a wheel chair or immobile so it would be no shame to go into the old folks home and start dieing.

    I talk to strangers, and at first they see an old cripple but it's not long before I find I have someone who would like me as a friend and I put it down to my positive attitude..certainly not my appearance.

    Pluto only needs to become active and not worry that others may see him as unattractive, which I doubt would be the case...you only have to go to a shopping center to realise there are very few attractive people...He should get a hobby and I would suggest astronomy..you get out a lot, you have to do stuff and you can do it alone...and showing my images via my phone to check out girls is better than carrying a puppy.

    And get fit, exercise makes you feel better and look better..I still exercise but I mostly do it laying down, but you can have some weights by the bed...I do sit ups when getting out of bed...knee bends while I wait for the kettle to boil..every little thing helps...not only helps physically but helps push your motivation when it become stuck.

    I wish for his sake he could pull himself out of the hole he has dug for himself...I hate to see people failing because they talk themselves into it.

    And self talk..I am getting stronger, my memory is getting better, my legs are getting better...even I am losing weight and looking better..it works..it works so wonderfully well..you need to avoid all negative talk..even when I am in pain I remember to say to myself ..it could be worse..it's not as bad as it was...your mind will believe it.

    Alex
     
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2020
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  10. arfa brane call me arf Valued Senior Member

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    I was leaning towards a theory that humans need to get out into nature, now and then, because it's only been a few thousand years since we did it all the time--we lived in it as nomadic hunter-gatherer tribes. So we do it to keep our Paleolithic ancestors happy, type of thing. That is, if you accept that your brain is still at a point of evolution that theirs were at, given a few thousand years, even twenty or thirty isn't that significant.

    Or, we need to "go back" to this state, or try to, of being more closely connected to the world. This is essentially what that haiku means in the I Ching--Embrace the Tiger, then return to the Mountain.

    Where, the tiger is your worldly self, the part of you concerned with all those daily details--in the bush, there are trees and birds, no news, no cellphone coverage . . .
     
  11. arfa brane call me arf Valued Senior Member

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    Whoa, it has the structure of a Japanese poem when you say it in English, I don't really know if it is in there. Besides the I Ching is Chinese. Possible lack of actual scholarship on my part. But it's from somewhere like that.
     
  12. arfa brane call me arf Valued Senior Member

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    Maybe the only way to know how real your life is, is to understand yourself (start with assuming you're at least as intelligent as the average Paleolithic human). Maybe the concept of God being external is a mistake--but one we made a long time ago.

    That is, I can't say how much it mattered to early hunter-gatherer tribes, how much they believed there really were the outlines of animals and humans in the night sky, or if they understood the idea was just a naming of things, and nothing more significant.

    But perhaps because the names had historical significance, that might have been more important; the historical significance of fire use certainly seems to have been important enough that an easily-remembered story about it survived for a really long time.

    So how do you find out the story is true or not? How do you know if fire is real? Duh.
    Since, it's easy to show that fire isn't alive, at least it is nowadays . . .
     
  13. Xelasnave.1947 Valued Senior Member

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    8,183
    I agree.
    I often say to folk don't trust anyone but above all do trust yourself.

    By that I mean question your motivation..ask why you are buying that new car or in my case another telescope.

    All I am getting at is we justify stupid choices so often...new car ...do you really need it?

    So often we do things to show off in my view but provide ourselves with good reasons to support a stupid choice.

    I often wonder just how smart we are compared to our hunter ancestors.

    I am on and off about buying a new scope and mount..it does not really make sense given I can't get the best out of what I already have..I just want it..but can not come up with a half good reason to get the scope I have in mind..it's just a want thing...I was going to order the new scope and mount today but finally I thought to cool off and just try and work out why...I can't find a good reason but the want won't go away...all I can think is buy it then realise I can't drive it and sell it, lose some cash but at least the want will be satisfied. Pay for peace of mind.

    I think I realise I don't have much time left so go for it...is all I can think.

    Big assumption really...imagine their life..you would really have to be smart just to feed yourself and survive.

    We don't give them decent recognition.

    We have no idea however by virtue of my astronomy I appreciate how they may have used the night sky to determine their next move...for me the Moon determines my trips to the city..full Moon go to the city..new Moon go bush bush and photograph the sky.

    I don't think of our calender just when will it be new Moon.

    I know from fishing the Moon dictated my moves..tides ...I would look for a high tide at day break cause the fish were on...if you are a hunter your clock will be different..it's not 9 to 5...some days or months save your bait or spear tips...
    Now all turns on the day the cheque comes in...

    You probably can not...I mean my clock is so different as it turns on photographic activity, we don't know motivations back in time...gathering at Stonehenge seems to be when the pigs grew fat...we can't think that way cause bacon is always on special.

    However they saw a system and a relationship of the appearance of stars at particular times to herd migration, available fish and then at some point related these things to an intelligence making it so and it seems to have gathered unrealistic importance but clearly celebrations were tied into the passage of the stars..so easy to fit gods in there to explain things and where better than the night fire to tell the stories and take their minds off the dark.

    Nothing like a good fire..better than tv.
    Alex
     
  14. arfa brane call me arf Valued Senior Member

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    If we used to worship animals, why did one particular animal, the dog, become the first one we domesticated?

    Is that just because the ancestral species would have adapted to human encampments and the availability of food? After living closely for a few thousand years, it just happened, or, humans found that dogs--tamed wolves--were useful. For what though? And did the initial using of dogs as some kind of tool, perhaps because they bark as a warning to the pack . . .? mean some kind of homage to a mythical spirit? Is that why Orion has his companions up there?
     
  15. arfa brane call me arf Valued Senior Member

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    7,033
    Before humans began rearing wolf pups, the packs must have lived closely enough that humans would also hear them barking at perceived dangers.

    The early scavenging wolves adapted to less hunting so possibly a smaller subspecies adapted better; they would have to deal with the smell of food or carrion being mixed with the smell of humans--a dangerous animal. They would have barked at their smell to sound the alarm, up close encounters would probably not have been that common.

    It must have taken quite a while for the instinctive behaviour to start to disappear.
     
  16. Xelasnave.1947 Valued Senior Member

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    8,183
    Someone found a wolf pup and said please Daddy can I keep it?
    Very handy item. Warns, helps hunts, good for keeping you warm ( my dogs saved me once when everything was wet and near dying of cold..four dogs lay on me until the rain stopped . I certainly would have died, alone no phone, etc) and fresh meat if needed. I read something suggesting that because dogs took over us needing to smell that part of our brain was available for speech.
    Alex
     
  17. pluto2 Valued Senior Member

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    1,030
    If God exists then I think that he should be despised.

    The way I see it God is the ultimate oppressor and destroyer of life:

    God brings people to this world just to make them suffer and he causes them to endure a life of hardship and forces them to live in poverty for their entire life, just to make them die of old age in the end. What kind of being does that to people if it's not an evil, immoral and sadistic being?

    I think God creates people just to make them suffer and forces people to be in situations that are hard and painful for them because God is a sadist and he is actually enjoys seeing humans suffer. God is the ultimate egoist.

    If God exists then I think I hate him and I also think that this God being should obviously be destroyed because he is evil, immoral and sadistic and that if he even exists at all and for his sake I hope he does not actually exist.
     
  18. Xelasnave.1947 Valued Senior Member

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    8,183
    Let us assume that there is no god...that would mean all this suffering etc is not related to the behaviour of a none existent entity. For the most part it would mean that one's situation would be due to other factors, some within ones control other not so much. I believe so many factors that effect ones situation is within personal control and from there I don't blame anything as holding me back .... And so I stay positive, do all I can to be healthy, take care of my body shape by not tolerating fat and promote good body tone (yes even at my age), don't tell myself I can't do this or that because my legs are gone, I don't tell myself I look unattractive or am not interesting to perhaps, at least, most people, and know if I was seeking a partner that there are countless opportunities if I decided to make that my goal.
    My point is there is no point in using a non existent god as a reason to cop out on life. Mate I feel for you. I really do worry about you. I know the only thing holding you back is you. I wish you could snap out of it, get out, get fit, dress and groom like you are a movie star and believe you are entitled to everything the world has to offer. Ladies like a man to be tidy, well groomed, and confident until you can tick those boxes don't even think about a date, ...
    Alex
    Alex
     
  19. arfa brane call me arf Valued Senior Member

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    7,033
    Pursuant to my idea that stories become legends, then legends become myths and people start to believe things that weren't meant to be true initially, as in early humans named certain groups of stars, in which the sun would rise and set each day but it changed with the seasons, later humans started to believe the names were more significant than just names, perhaps for different reasons:

    Tarot cards have exactly this property, they weren't meant to be used like an oracle.
    --https://www.thecut.com/article/tarot-cards.html

    I watched some American woman do a tarot reading for Donald Trump, of course, it wasn't good.
     
  20. arfa brane call me arf Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    7,033
    --https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tarot

    And apparently, the name Tarot derives from an old Italian word for foolishness; so literally a foolish game. Heh

    It's also likely that Tarot decks and readings were popular during the Victorian era, and revitalised the game somewhat.
     
  21. pluto2 Valued Senior Member

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    1,030
    I know for a fact that there is no loving God.

    If there is a God then he must be a sadistic monster for creating this cruel and unfair world.

    God supposedly created this dog-eat-dog world many people step on each other just to make money and become wealthy at the expense of someone else being forced to live in extreme poverty for the rest of their miserable life and eventually just die of old age and that's if they even reach old age.

    So if God created this cruel world that we live in then he must be a sadistic monster because there is no other way to describe him.
     
  22. candy Registered Senior Member

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    868
    pluto2 being one with the universe means accepting the dark with the light; the cruel as well as the kind.
     
  23. Xelasnave.1947 Valued Senior Member

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    Well then all change is up to you, that was my point...good luck I really want you to go for it and find that girl out there who is waiting for you.
    She could be at the gym, the shopping centre or the library so go to each often so you get to meet her ... Lot s of effort required so...
    get started today.
    Alex
     
    Last edited: Jul 24, 2020

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