If Election result 2016 declared illegal, what then?

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Quantum Quack, Aug 23, 2018.

  1. spidergoat Venued Serial Membership Valued Senior Member

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    No. Electors elect the president, states don't even have to have a vote. Congress decides what to do in case of anomalies.
     
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  3. kx000 Valued Senior Member

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    I nominate myself as Trumps replacement.
     
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  5. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    Ryan was elected in the same cycle as Trump and Pence - just another box on the ballot, in one of the States most likely to have held fraudulent elections. And he has formally retired, as of a couple of months from now.

    What should happen? imho: Impeachment and/or indictment and prosecution of all perpetrators. That would include at least four Republican State Governors or Secretaries of State, along with a few Federal Congressmen. No undoing of legislation etc - that would be like demolishing a house because its financing was fraudulent.

    What will happen? ("Will" because the election was fraudulent, as we and all except the pundits and "conservatives" know). A couple of major perps will take a fall. Both sides will be found to blame, so at least one perp from some other side will be located and prosecuted - preferably someone close to a Clinton or Obama.
     
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  7. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

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    The incoming president would surely prefer to undo the most egregious of TrumpsterFire's atrocities via proper presidential channels - and take the credit for it in the process.
     
  8. parmalee peripatetic artisan Valued Senior Member

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    To avert sidetracking into a discussion of complicity, let's pretend that Pence is as innocent as he is white--would determination of a fraudulent election (and consequent removal or resignation of Trump) necessarily rid us of Pence, as well?
     
  9. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    Nope. There's no "undoing" of an election.
     
  10. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

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    This came up when Bush was elected - the whole hanging chad scandal.
    Whether by hook or by crook, once elected, it can't be rolled back.
     
  11. parmalee peripatetic artisan Valued Senior Member

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    No Constitutional provisions for such, certainly, but surely some sort of effort to redress would be made--for appearance sake, at least.

    The specifics here are certainly unique and, perhaps, unprecedented, but it's hardly as though "problematic" and disputed elections in general haven't got quite a history. See below.

    I was in Asia during the 2000 election and watched...whatever unfold with a bunch of fur'ners in a hostel. All viewers were quite captivated by the proceedings, but very few registered any sorta real surprise.
     
  12. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member

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    If the election was found to be unconstitutional , I don't see how the constitution could be used to protect it...
     
  13. Seattle Valued Senior Member

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    Trump might be impeached, he isn't going to be convicted. He isn't even going to potentially be impeached unless the Democrats take control after the mid-term elections. If that's the case, then the Speaker of the House will not be Ryan (who retires anyway). It will be a Democrat.

    If Trump and Pence are impeached and convicted then the President would be whomever is the Democratic Speaker of the House.

    If Pence isn't impeached and becomes President, he would be a lame duck for the rest of his term and no one would reelect him.

    The best thing that can happen is for the Democrats to take control of the House and undo anything that Trump tries to do. The Republican majority in the House is why we have the Trump nonsense now.
     
  14. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    Were.
    That isn't on the table. Even if some State laws governing some State's election procedures were found unConstitutional, that would have no effect on the prior election.

    The issue is fraud and manipulation - violation of law. Crime.
     
  15. RainbowSingularity Valued Senior Member

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    miss spoke
    miss-step
    miss-elect

    The Dictator can claim to have "miss-spoke" the command that sent everyone to their firey death,
    yet the electors cant declare a miss-elect ?

    such a bizar spectacle of morality
     
  16. parmalee peripatetic artisan Valued Senior Member

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    Re: this whole no "do-over" thing--it's not so much that I'm forgetting my history, it's just... I mean, who's writing this shit? I'd expect way more subtlety and nuance from an episode of 24--and it'd definitely be one of those in which Jack Bauer has to shoot the boss-man in the back of the head so that the terrorists don't nuke L.A.

    I don't even know why I'm insulting 24: it was never this lame.

    24 writer A: Let's do one where some schmuck colludes with the Russians and becomes President.

    Writer B: And then?

    A: Well, nothing--'cuz you can't really undo an election. So... we'll somehow implicate the black guy.

    B: Obama?

    A: No--David Powell.

    B: But... wait: wasn't he shot? Hasn't he been, like, dead for the past decade?

    A: Doesn't matter.
     
  17. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member

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    uhm... which is unconstitutional yes? ( just kidding... or am I?)
     
  18. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    I am sure there would be a lot of indictments, impeachments and political angst. But setting the precedent "if you get enough dirt on a president you can undo the election" is a poor one to set (IMO.)

    ?? It wouldn't. There would be no protecting or unprotecting. The president would merely stay in power.
     
  19. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    No. It's illegal.
    Didn't you say you had a Constitution, like the US?
     
  20. sculptor Valued Senior Member

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    QQ You can read the constitution on-line.
     
  21. parmalee peripatetic artisan Valued Senior Member

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    I agree. In fact, even some of Trump's own criticisms on this front are not unreasonable, even if they are hypocritical and his delivery, as usual, is crap. (Though I do like that "should almost be illegal" line.)

    Personally, I've always been partial to an untidy, ambiguous, slightly incoherent mess of an "ending," but I've always been under the impression that most people--in fact, the vast overwhelming majority--do not prefer that. They want clear answers and definitive results. Resolution. I think--I mean, that's what they want in fiction, at least. In one of his priceless Arrested Development appearances (S02E09, about 3:20 in), John Beard previews the upcoming evening news broadcast: "...plus, another wolf sighting in the park. What this means for your weekend and more..." The latter line delivered in that ridiculously upbeat fashion, of course. And who wouldn't want to know what another wolf sighting in the park could mean for their weekend? Could you live without that knowledge?
     
  22. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

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    The election of the leader of the free world is not about word games.
     
  23. spidergoat Venued Serial Membership Valued Senior Member

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    It would already have been declared certified, or legal. You can't unlegal it.
     

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