if christ returned,how would Atheists take it?

To believe is to see. Look around and see the effect which he made when he was here last time. All these people who believe in him have also seen him, but there are also those who have never heard of Christianity or Jesus and they have still believed in him and seen him.

Do you really think it's essential to see the instrument, the body, he used to express himself while he was on earth?
Wherever the body is, the eagles will gather.

He will return to every human heart individually, this is the second coming.
As the lightning goes forth from the East and shines to the West, so shall be the coming of the 'Son of man'.
Wherever the body is, the eagles will gather.

The more I suffer, the more I believe in God.

 

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Yorda: To believe is to see.
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M*W: You made the claim that when Jesus was here the last time, that billions saw him. I asked you to provide scientific evidence to prove your claim. There are more people on earth who don't believe in Jesus (billions). Please back-up your claim with evidence.
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Yorda: Look around and see the effect which he made when he was here last time. All these people who believe in him have also seen him, but there are also those who have never heard of Christianity or Jesus and they have still believed in him and seen him.
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M*W: When I look around, I see no proof of Jesus' existence at all. Surely out of the billions of people you say saw him, you should be able to elicit some scientific documentation.
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Yorda: Do you really think it's essential to see the instrument, the body, he used to express himself while he was on earth?
Wherever the body is, the eagles will gather.
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M*W: Exactly where is Jesus' body located? Cliches are not valid testimony. You claim that you have seen Jesus. Please cite when, where and how you saw him so it can be verified with evidence.
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Yorda: He will return to every human heart individually, this is the second coming. As the lightning goes forth from the East and shines to the West, so shall be the coming of the 'Son of man'.
Wherever the body is, the eagles will gather.
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M*W: Are you saying that you don't know where Jesus' body lies?
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Yorda: The more I suffer, the more I believe in God.
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M*W: I'm sorry for your suffering. I don't believe in god, and I don't suffer. If Jesus died for you, you shouldn't be suffering! People create their own suffering due to their embedded guilt about Jesus' death. Rest assured, Jesus did not die for you, and your suffering is in vain.

 

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Please forgive me for asking so many questions but I'm stunned. I feel like Neo right now.
as a atheist, do you beleive u have a soul?
if so who do u turn to for spiritual guidance?
if u dont beleive in God, can truly sin exist?
As a atheist, can i have sex with as many people as i want?
Do atheist look at all man made higher powers as illogical?

 

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I don't think there is a soul separate from the body, but the body is a mysterious thing, and there is more to it than matter.

For spiritual guidance, I like Alan Watts, Terence McKenna, Charles Bukowski, my friends, strangers, music, books, walking in the forest, pot...

Even without God, the concept of sin is interesting, meaning wrong action, but I don't feel sin in itself has a separate existence, like it's written down somewhere, but wrong action has a way of coming back on you...

Yes, you can have sex with as many people as you want, but cheating is still bad, since it can hurt someone's feelings...

Man made higher powers may have a certain logic to them, like bad people are punished, but mostly that's a myth.

Can I ask you a question, lostmind? Why are you so stunned? Have you lived an especially sheltered life so far?

 

I think believing in God and not believing in God are the same thing.

 

lostmind: Please forgive me for asking so many questions but I'm stunned. I feel like Neo right now.

as a atheist, do you beleive u have a soul?
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M*W: No, there is no such thing as a 'soul'. What we've been taught by religions would indicate that there is a soul, but I believe what has been described as the 'soul' is nothing more than an electromagnetic field that moves through all creation. It's what makes us 'alive' and 'animated.' This energy field never dies, so yes, it is eternal. When we shed our "Earthsuit" the electromagnet field simply returns to the whole.
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lostmind: if so who do u turn to for spiritual guidance?
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M*W: I seek guidance within myself. We all have the power within to trust our inner selves. It's just that christians don't understand this concept, so they always look for some higher power when there is no higher power then themselves.
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lostmind: if u dont beleive in God, can truly sin exist?
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M*W: 'Sin' doesn't exist, because there is no god to judge our bad behavior. However, bad behavior exists and bad behavior can lead to crimes against each other (and even against ourselves).
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lostmind: As a atheist, can i have sex with as many people as i want?
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M*W: Sex is not a sin, but that's what christians believe. Even though I personally don't believe sex is a sin, it wouldn't be prudent to have sex with as many people as you want, because that would be unhealthy for both parties concerned. In fact, it can be deadly.
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lostmind: Do atheist look at all man made higher powers as illogical?
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M*W: I cannot speak for all atheists, but the fact is that early humans created the idea of god, because they couldn't understand things like the sun, moon and elements (weather, etc.). The most ancient of peoples believed the sun to be god since all life was created by the warmth of the sun. Through the ages many civilizations worshipped the sun. About 2000 years ago, those sun worshippers created the idea of the Sun of God or son-of-the-sun. There is no creator god. I believe that humanity is the closest thing to god that we have, and humanity should be worshipped as if all mankind was god.

Welcome to sciforums, lostmind. I still believed in god when I came here, but it didn't take too long for me to realize that there is no way there could be a god. Give it some time, and you will see that it's true.

 

M*W: When I look around, I see no proof of Jesus' existence at all. Surely out of the billions of people you say saw him, you should be able to elicit some scientific documentation.
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Yorda: Jesus is in the mind of people, it is there people have seen him, billions have seen him. The 'higher self' of man is the same as Jesus. He (God) is spirit.
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M*W: Are you saying that you don't know where Jesus' body lies?
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Yorda: His body is the universe. "From me did the all come forth, and unto me did the all extend. Split a piece of wood, and I am there. Lift up a stone, and you will find me there."
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M*W: I'm sorry for your suffering. I don't believe in god, and I don't suffer. If Jesus died for you, you shouldn't be suffering! People create their own suffering due to their embedded guilt about Jesus' death. Rest assured, Jesus did not die for you, and your suffering is in vain.
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Yorda: Hehe.. Thanks... but I suffer because I loved something in the world and "God" took it from me, and he said: Nothing lasts in the material world. God says that we should love the Creator more than the created, because the Creator created the created and is the origin of all good things.

 

No, I have'nt. I've heard of atheism but never talked to a atheist. you have to understand that when your told one thing your entire life and you figure the majority of people feel the same way. Then you find out you are the actual minority among non beleivers.Is there a site that has more info on atheism?
what country are u from?( all who responed to the thread)

 

If Jesus returned how would athiest take it?.

Lets see, there are about a dozen Jesus' in every nut house around the globe, I think we'd take him to one of them.

Unless; He can walk on water
Bring back dead relatives
be omnipresent in 500 cities around the globe at exactly the same time.
gave me a trillion dollars in gold to bribe me back.
LOL...LOL..

ASk and you shall receive lostmind:


atheism

atheists forums

There are plenty other Atheists forums around the net, just search Google.

You are a product of your enviorement, thus u are a christian, if you were born in Pakistan you'd probably be a muslim, in Idia you would be a Harigrishna or again a muslim, what ever. You don't understand that which you've never seen or heard, thus you lack understanding of "free minds" idealists, such as you see here before you in Sci-Forums. Some of us are atheists, you've got agnostics, a few theists, and lots of humanists and others that just simply don't label themselves.

I on the other hand Am just plainly

Godless.

 

I think Jesus was just a man,if he even existed,and not very smart one,cursing fig tree for not bearing fruit out of season would be just one example of him being "one bottle short of a sixpack",if you know what I mean

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( bit loony,sometimes)
btw
if there was God that created all,then we all would be his children,dont you think?

no,read how the belief in souls began here
www.atheists.org/Atheism/mind.html

myself

sin is what people define it to be,
in the bible God/Jesus many times teaches pretty evil things,which any normal person would find abhorent,
and if you are true christian you should follow the bible to the letter,thats one of the reasons atheists find it wrong to use as a guide to live by
www.evilbible.com
www.thewaronfaith.com/bible_quotes.htm

why couldnt you,
however then theres more danger of getting more than you bargain for.
ever heard of Aids,HIV,STDs?

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funny you should say"man made"
then yes

heres very informative atheists forum
www.infidels.org/index.html

 

Atheists are consumed by religion and the idea of God. Rare to find a religion forum on the net without a swarm of atheists preaching their gospels. I don't get it.

 

Hello SnakeLord,

I think if we turn back the clock we could find the source for the creation of the word "fairy", maybe it came from the Bible, a sort of twist on the word angel. Have you looked into it? I mean fairy now means someone who is gay which in turn now means homosexual instead of happy.

But the difference with God and fairy, is that God has been with us since the dawn of time as far as history goes, and is still very prominent now, no one knows the source.

God is either man made, and they made him up pretty fast, basically as soon as they could write or He does exists. Neither can be proven, so it's a leap of faith either way.

Dave

 

Lostmind:

I've heard questions of this nature many times before, and to be honest I find it somewhat disturbing. Did you forget about your parents, family, loved ones?

Even before your birth, your parents were looking after you and protecting you. When you were then born, they fed you, clothed you to keep you warm. They provided you with everything you would need in order to survive, and be happy.

Is that not good enough for you? Do you prefer to cling to some non-existant protection from the sky, as opposed to real protection that comes from those you can see, feel and touch?

And how has any sky being 'protected' you? When you were a young child, were you not prone to a barrage of illness.. from mumps to chicken pocks, whooping cough to measles? Who protected you from these things? The sky? No. Humans did.

This holds true for your entire existence here. When you get an illness, when the floods, earthquakes and tornados come.. it is humans that try to protect humans.

Your question shows you don't really notice it, but you are being protected, and you're not alone.

No.

What's that then?

Well the word 'sin' doesn't really fit, but sure.. bad things can happen, and can be performed.

Some people kill others, some people get untreatable lung cancer. These are bad things.

Having sex with people has nothing to do with being an atheist. Whether to have sex with many people or not is upto you. The same is true whether you're atheist or religious.

Not in the slightest. It is extremely logical for an early people to have 'gods'. These folk could not explain the world, and the things that happened on it. They had to explain it the only way they could comprehend it, and as a result you end up with gods that not only can be full of 'anger' and 'wrath', (due to nasty stuff like earthquakes, volcanoes and the like), but always on their side, (the jewish god looks after the jews and helps them in battle, etc etc).

What is illogical, is for a person in the year 2004 believing in these higher powers.

Well, there are several beliefs as to the origin of fairies, mostly from celtic mythology - but even some legends saying they were fallen angels. It depends, because there are many different types of fairies. They're not all little sparkling things with wings.

However, it's no indication of whether they're real or not. There are some mentions in Sumerian texts of fairy-type beings. Sumerian texts are the oldest texts we currently know of, which makes them as old as "the gods".

So you're saying that age and prominence determines reality?

Your statement is inaccurate.

The oldest known writings that we have all depict multiple gods. As a result, shouldn't we now conclude that there are many gods? I mean c'mon, the majority of beliefs were polytheistic. There are but a small handful of beliefs depicting a lone god being, and all of those are recent creations compared to polytheistic beliefs. As a result, in concurrence with your statement, either they made it up pretty fast or there are many gods.

The earliest gods were also not all that powerful, (not omnipotent, omnipresent, omniscient), and could even be killed or die from natural causes, (and sometimes did).

In conclusion: there would be little point believing in one relatively modern made god, as opposed to a handful of gods.

Even when looking into modern day beliefs, we still see 'multiple gods'. The OT god talks in plurals with: "Let us go down and confuse their language..", or "Man has now become like one of us.." and so on. Even the really modern christianity depicts three gods. It tries in vain to make the number 3 = 1, but then defines them all by distinct name and personality: the holy ghost, the son and the father.

If you really want to look at age as the main factor in whether something is real or not, then you would have to concur that there is more likely to be many gods, than just one.

Even if you were to look at belief as a whole, you would have to conclude there are multiple gods. There's Allah, there's Jesus, there's YHWH, there's Brahma and so on. Unless you'd call every other belief a lie, it stands to reason that there are many gods, all serving a different group of people. Perhaps they came to an agreement, and split up their 'territory', each taking a segment for him/her/it -self.

So, here's a new question: Why don't you believe in multiple gods?

 

If Mohammed returned, how would Christians take it?

His future resurrection which should occur at a time will be a real wasteland, he will be told as he will come out of his grave.

" It is the Day of Rising, and the Day of Anguish and Repentance.
This is the Day of Burak!
This is the of Reckoning and Recompense.
This is the Day of Parting ;
This is the Day of Encounter! "

The Day of Rising is the Day of the Winged-Horse, which no one will ride except the Prophet.

" You will see every nation hobbling on their knees, every nation being summoned to its (own) book - today you shall be recompensed for what you were doing!" (Qur'an 45,28)

La Allah illa Allah! Allah Akbar!

 

I'd murder him, and make his first death seem like a walk in the park.

Actually I probably wouldn't notice him. He'd either be lost in a sea of liberal pansies, have his own vegas act, or he'd be a raving derelict on the side of the road.

But yeah, if I knew it was him, I'd kill him. I think the most poetically just fate for him would be to inject him with aids.
He caused it after all.

 

I'm from the US. Are you? ...since American's are generally bombarded by different viewpoints on TV... but you could be like an Apostolic Lutheran I know who doesn't watch TV, or listen to music, except for hymns in church...who you call non-believers might actually believe quite a few things, just different things...

 

Hello SnakeLord,


What is illogical, is for a person in the year 2004 believing in these higher powers.


First off, I’ll just butt in here. How is it illogical in your eyes? What is so different in the world now compared to 5500 years ago?


Well, there are several beliefs as to the origin of fairies, mostly from celtic mythology - but even some legends saying they were fallen angels. It depends, because there are many different types of fairies. They're not all little sparkling things with wings.

However, it's no indication of whether they're real or not. There are some mentions in Sumerian texts of fairy-type beings. Sumerian texts are the oldest texts we currently know of, which makes them as old as "the gods".


I don’t think Sumerian texts are the oldest, check this out and note the mention of a deity


So you're saying that age and prominence determines reality?


Through the process of deduction we should be able to arrive at a more accurate understanding of what went on back then and what these words mean.


Your statement is inaccurate.

The oldest known writings that we have all depict multiple gods.


This could well be wrong. See my link.


As a result, shouldn't we now conclude that there are many gods?


No


I mean c'mon, the majority of beliefs were polytheistic.


Since when has the majority been correct? Maybe on who wants to be a millionaire, ask the audience.


There are but a small handful of beliefs depicting a lone god being,


As above


The earliest gods were also not all that powerful, (not omnipotent, omnipresent, omniscient), and could even be killed or die from natural causes, (and sometimes did).

Ok


In conclusion: there would be little point believing in one relatively modern made god, as opposed to a handful of gods.

My God is not modern; He’s been around a while

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Even when looking into modern day beliefs, we still see 'multiple gods'. The OT god talks in plurals with: "Let us go down and confuse their language..", or "Man has now become like one of us.." and so on.

There is a good answer for the above, but I forgot it. If you’re really interested I’ll find out for ya, let me know.

EDITED: Actually, have you ever thought the "us" could be referring to angels?


If you really want to look at age as the main factor in whether something is real or not, then you would have to concur that there is more likely to be many gods, than just one.

No. The link above should clear what you said here up, unless the link is not genuine in your eyes.

Even if you were to look at belief as a whole, you would have to conclude there are multiple gods. There's Allah, there's Jesus, there's YHWH, there's Brahma and so on. Unless you'd call every other belief a lie, it stands to reason that there are many gods, all serving a different group of people. Perhaps they came to an agreement, and split up their 'territory', each taking a segment for him/her/it -self.

Yes, there seems to be many gods mentioned, but I believe in JEHOVAH (English Translation) as the LORD Almighty. Without The Son of God, Jesus Christ I would be heading where your heading (obviously you’ve got time to change your mind I hope).


So, here's a new question: Why don't you believe in multiple gods?

I’m a Christian, all other gods are false in my opinion (call it arrogance but I call it faith).

Dave

P.S SnakeLord, just out of interest have you heard about the Star Disc? Here's a link if your interested(This is slightly off topic I know):

http://www.bbc.co.uk/science/horizon/2004/stardisc.shtml

Reference:

Psalm 83:18
That men may know that thou, whose name alone is JEHOVAH, art the most high over all the earth.

 

I'd challenge him to a dance dance revolution face-off.

 

It's seemingly illogical in most peoples eyes. Here is an example I sometimes use, just to show how the "god excuse" has dwindled off into nothing, being taken over by 'reality'.

Firstly ask a person what caused the ten plagues. People will always respond that god did it as a punishment against the Egyptians for enslaving the jews.

Next ask that same person what caused the bubonic plague. People will always say "rats", (or some variant thereof).

As time progresses, and people start to understand more about the planet, god goes more and more out of focus. For early people, the only excuse for a plague would have been a pissed off, powerful sky being.. but you see how quickly that all changes when people learn more about the world?

Nobody turns round and says "god cause the bubonic plague because he was angry with sinful Europeans". The reason for this, is because better understanding of the world makes people understand that the reality was indirectly because of rats.

Surely, in order to be consistant, one must say god caused the bubonic plague, the flood in India, the earthquake in Los Angeles, and the thunder storm last week up the road. But of course they wont, because it goes against the truth of what we as a people understand. Thousands of years ago they didn't know, and as such we cannot blame them for thinking it was the power of some guy in the sky. They weren't going to say the ten plagues were because of natural reasons, because they didn't know about or understand those natural reasons.

The same does not apply to people in the year 2004.

A long time ago, people used to think that someone who had a headache had an evil spirit in his head, and then set about chopping that evil spirit out of their head. This does not imply that evil spirits ever existed, but simply that these people did not know what caused headaches, or how to deal with it.

The same applies to god. As science and understanding move forward, god vanishes off into the horizon.

The mention of "a deity" is unfounded considering it goes on to say that nobody can, and most likely never will, understand what the symbols mean.

Further to that, wse.edu says:

"We know nothing of the religion of the Harappans. Unlike in Mesopotamia or Egypt, we have discovered no building that so much as hints that it might be a temple or involve any kind of public worship. The bulk of public buildings in the city seemed to be solely oriented towards the economy and making life comfortable for the Harappans."

It then goes on to say:

"We do, however, have a number of tantalizing figures on various seals and statues. What we gather from these figures (and we can not gather much), is that the Harappans probably exercised some sort of goddess worship. There is, however, some sort of male god (maybe) that has the head of a man with the horns of a bull. In addition, we believe from various artifacts that the Harappans also may have worshipped natural objects or animistic forces, but the circumstances of this worship can only be guessed at. "

So judging from this site, it would appear these people possible had more than one god, and their main one being a goddess, not a god. There are many other cultures with female gods aswell, so we are left with yet another question.

What's to say, if there is a god and one god only, that it's a bloke?

Was that a yes or a no to my question?

So how do you conclude there's only one god?

Since when has the minority been correct?

What god would that be, and how long is 'a while'? And.. according to who? What makes those who wrote about this specific god any more valid than the writers who spoke of multiple gods, female gods, mortal gods?

Sure, go for it.

Only if those angels are of the same nature and status as god itself.

"Let us make man in our own image, in the likeness of ourselves.."

"Genuine" is a broad term. I don't accuse the site of purposeful fallciousness, but it most certainly doesn't give itself any real credibility in the long run. Need I repeat: "So probably we will never know what the symbols mean,"?

Further to that, it seems you've become confused with the statement. It says: "Experts believe they may have indicated the contents of the jar or be signs associated with a deity"

Associated with a deity, not the deity. It's unlikely the culture would depict hundreds of gods on one jar, and the statement in no way claims that these people believed in only one deity, but that this jar has some unknown symbols on it that might be signs of a deity.

Failing that, visit wse.edu.

Ok, so it's translated as the "lord almighty". Neither of those words implies that he is the only one.

"Lord" is a symbol of rank. He would have no need for rank if he was the only one.

"Almighty" means he's the most powerful of the gods, and as such is given the rank of Lord.

Oh.. Where am I heading?

So it's like a diceroll? Roll the wrong number and you're in deep shit?

The only problem being that nobody knows what number they're supposed to roll - and so they roll anyway, and when faced with a number have little choice but to have "faith" that the number is the right one.

No offence, but I find that daft.

 

Gravity: If Mohammed returned, how would Christians take it?
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M*W: Christians would scream, "Anti-Christ!, he's the Anti-Christ!"