Idiocy, Compulsion, Gratitude, Nobility or Deception?

Discussion in 'Ethics, Morality, & Justice' started by KUMAR5, Dec 25, 2017.

  1. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

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    You're looking for some sort of purpose or guiding direction.
    Unless you plan to argue the hand of God, nature does not have direction.
     
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  3. KUMAR5 Registered Senior Member

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    Hunting, random killing etc. is bit natural but otherwise not. Like, taking fully ripened fruits of a tree is natural but taking all live parts other than ripened fruits from a crop on farming is not.
     
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  5. spidergoat Venued Serial Membership Valued Senior Member

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    So you are making a case that what is natural is also what is most ethical?
     
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  7. KUMAR5 Registered Senior Member

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    Every farmer does love his crop and nurse that like a guardian upto harvesting. But a hunter or random plucker of fruits even by some natural manipulation can not be said as unnatural. We may need to look, wild animals behaviour as compared to civilized human behaviour to justify naturality or not.
     
  8. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

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    That would be great. If we all wanted to live in caves and hidey-holes and scrounge for every morsel, like we did 40,000 years ago.

    The whole point of having a person take more than one person's share of food is so that he can trade some it to the other guy who - because he doesn't have to spend his day hunting for his food - can manage to build shelters for both of them.

    Division of labour is what defines civilization and has allowed us to thrive. Instead of claws and night vision, we got brains.
     
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2018
  9. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    Like I said, visit a large farm someday.
     
  10. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    So mass murderer who kills at random - OK
    Jury who sentences the mass murderer to death - not OK
     
  11. KUMAR5 Registered Senior Member

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    Murder and killing are two different terms. Mass murders are usually not random and natural. Even a lion do not practice mass murdering. It is not necessary, social rules also match with nature's rules.
     
  12. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    Some of the most disturbed and prolific mass murderers of history killed at random. Google "Timothy McVeigh" "Steven Paddock" and "Hans Breivik." I guess all those are natural and OK.
    ?? Apes have wars where they will kill everyone in an opposing tribe. Anteaters will wipe out entire colonies of ants. Cats will kill birds all day even when they aren't hungry.
     
  13. river

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    12,083
    Humans have a brain that is beyond just Nature .

    We think , we have a mind , which is greater than the sum of the parts of the brain ,therefore beyond any other animal , we can change our direction of our future .

    We tend to focus on the bad side of Humanity .

    But it is just routine , repetition . We have to break out of this routine , repetition , in order to evolve .

    The focus on psychopaths gets us no where . Fuck the psychopaths , move on people . Grow evolve to a better place .
     
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2018
  14. KUMAR5 Registered Senior Member

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    Sorry, I do not know about them. Many times things can also happen to affect nature's balance.

    This is natural.
     
  15. Seattle Valued Senior Member

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    We already know, pain, suffering and ultimately death.

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

     
  16. gmilam Valued Senior Member

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    Nothing is "beyond nature". We are a part of nature & nature does not allow us to do anything un-natural.

    Un-desirable - certainly. Nature will allow us to wipe ourselves out. But un-natural is not possible.
     
  17. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

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    Yes, this had often been a source of semantic ambiguity.
    While we all recognize that humans are strictly-speaking "part of nature", people often mean something to the effect of specifically intelligent interference.

    Whatever label you want to give it, there is a qualitative difference between 'hunting to fill one's belly' and 'anticipating the needs of one's tribe and going about manipulating one's environment to maximize gain' - such as agriculture, and farming*.

    * although damn those pesky aphid-herding ants for wrecking the pattern
     
  18. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    Google is your friend!
    In that case, so is factory farming.

    You seem to have a common misconception - that nature is kind, that we should treat other animals like that heartwarming Youtube video showing a lion caring for a puppy. But nature isn't like that. Usually the lion eats the puppy.

    There are part of nature that are cruel, barbaric and sadistic. There are animals that exhibit all the worst things that humans have exhibited. There are also animals that exhibit compassion, kindness, mercy etc. Making "natural" your standard doesn't mean much in terms of behavior.
     
  19. KUMAR5 Registered Senior Member

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    Do you mean animals behave similaraly with other animals as human behave? Domestication, farming, captivity, cooking etc are not practiced by animals. They just do random hunting for their basic need not for greed, taste or luxuary.
     
  20. KUMAR5 Registered Senior Member

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    Unnatural word exists in dictonary. If it would have been non existent, it would had not been there. Free will is also thought.
     
  21. KUMAR5 Registered Senior Member

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    Moreover, we may also need to understand with equamity, whether we are gifted with super consiciousness, inteligence and power to nurse and protect lower beings or to use and destroy them in our self interests with unnatural odd meand esp for our greed, luxury and taste?
     
  22. gmilam Valued Senior Member

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    The word unicorn is also in the dictionary.
     
  23. spidergoat Venued Serial Membership Valued Senior Member

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    Ants have domesticated aphids, and ants also farm.
     

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