Identity loss and suicide rates in Maoris

Discussion in 'Human Science' started by S.A.M., Jan 23, 2010.

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  1. Trippy ALEA IACTA EST Staff Member

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    If you follow the pottery and archeology, the Maori are ultimately of Asian stock anyway.

    And as for opression...

    Auckland Landmarks offered in Treaty Deal

    Maori given access to loans to build on Ancestral Land

    Google offered in Maori
     
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  3. Trippy ALEA IACTA EST Staff Member

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    Here I quote Wikipedia liberaly.

     
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  5. Fraggle Rocker Staff Member

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    Well of course they are. The Austronesian people, who range from Taiwan to Indonesia and Malaysia to New Zealand to Hawaii, had to come from somewhere.

    They most definitely did not come from Australia. The Australians are a distinct ethnic group, descendants of the first wave of migrants out of Africa ca 60KYA, and aside from a few northern islands they have no close relatives.

    All the rest of us non-Africans are descended from the second wave ca 50KYA. They populated southwestern Asia first, then eastern Asia and later Europe. Migrants from eastern Asia finally populated Austronesia and the Americas.
     
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  7. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    Well this is off topic but its usually the ones who don't actually read the Quran.

    Be hard to miss it, if they did.
     
  8. princelove Registered Senior Member

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    nice Views
     
  9. Billy T Use Sugar Cane Alcohol car Fuel Valued Senior Member

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    Many years ago I took my shoes off and spent an hour or so in the Mosik of DC reading the Quran (an English translation) It was very boring so I quit. - As I recall, at least in the initial parts there is very little about morality - something about cows is all I now recall.

    As it is one of mankind's great books, I would like to know if there is an on-line digest of it - one that skips most of the sections that seem to have little to do with religion / morality. I admit that the Christian Bible is equally boring and devoid of moral instruction in much of it also. Perhaps one must be a believer to find either worth reading?
     
  10. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    Most books on philosophy are boring. There is really no way around reading it, sorry.

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    I did attempt to explain it when I was new here, but most people are not really interested in the details.

    In the Arabic, I guess, it has the advantage of tempo, meter and construction, so we can at least enjoy the recital for its musical quality

    If you don't care to wade through the book itself, Karen Armstrong's books on Islam and Mohammed would be a good alternative
     
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2010
  11. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    That is not true in the public arena available to me - those who speak in public within my hearing or on the internet.

    It is also not apparent, based on my own reading of the Koran (sic), that one would expect it to be true. The recitation of threats, brags, discriminations, and general hostility that make up the bulk of the book is easily imaginable as a justification of practically anything, if interpreted "literally" in the manner familiar to me among Christian fundies.

    This clinging to "the rock" (as the Christian fundies put it) does seem at least potentially relevant to a discussion about loss of cultural identity and suicide rates among people who have no such written, unchanged, nailed down, centuries old handhold on their ancestral culture.
    The arrangement of the chapters is "traditional" - i.e. somewhat arbitrary. It's OK to start in the middle. Try "Light" or "The Bee" (I choose at whim, just now).
     
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2010
  12. Fraggle Rocker Staff Member

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    The invention of the technology of writing is not counted as a Paradigm Shift; not even by me (a linguist!), and I count six, twice as many as Toffler. Nonetheless this is an excellent illustration of the way a new technology can change a people's world view. Suddenly their history, legends and culture are written down permanently, so they don't change slightly with every retelling.

    How many of the arcane details in the Torah would be forgotten, muddled, condensed, "improved" by the whim of artistic license, or edited so as to increase the interest of a modern audience--if it had been passed down orally for 2400 years?

    A written history is a richer history that simply "feels" older; and a richer and older history grounds a people more securely in their past.
     
  13. Trippy ALEA IACTA EST Staff Member

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  14. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    Very interesting article. Why doesn't the author know Maori?
     
  15. Trippy ALEA IACTA EST Staff Member

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    Why does it matter?

    Not even all maori know maori.
     
  16. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    That seems odd. I thought everyone in NZ knows Maori. Its the one native language or isn't it?
     
  17. Trippy ALEA IACTA EST Staff Member

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    I don't know where you'd get a ridiculous notion like that from.
     
  18. Trippy ALEA IACTA EST Staff Member

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    For example, Kai Tahu speak a different dialect from Northern Tribes, and I'd find a moriori to talk to to find out more about their language, but the Maori commited genocide against them, so...

    And no, not everybody in New Zealand speaks Maori (otherwise why would the maori tv channel have english subtitles?)
     
  19. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    So all the Maori speak English, but not all the English speakers know Maori, is that correct? In fact, only the Maori by and large, speak Maori and English?
     
  20. Fraggle Rocker Staff Member

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    Maori is the one native language but according to the Wikipedia article on the Maori language only about one-fourth of the Maori in New Zealand speak it well enough to qualify under any reasonable definition of "fluent." Very few speak it as their primary language at home. Of the entire New Zealand population, 78% of which is of European ancestry, only 4% speak Maori.

    In the 19th century the British occupying force began to institutionalize the replacement of Maori with English and many Maori leaders supported this trend, accepting the importance of fluency in one of the world's primary languages. It wasn't until the 1980s that the movement to restore Maori gained any momentum and the number of speakers began to grow.

    Maori is in the Tahitic group of the Malayo-Polynesian branch of the Austronesian language family, which some linguists say has the largest number of members of any family on earth. There are dialects of Maori, but since the islands of New Zealand were only settled about 800 years ago they have not diverged to the point that intercomprehension is difficult. In fact, with a little work Maori can usually understand both Tahitian and the languages of the Cook Islands such as Rarotongan.
     
  21. Trippy ALEA IACTA EST Staff Member

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    Nope.
    There are some 'pakeha' fluent in english and maori.
    There are some maori that are fluent in english and maori.
    There are maori and 'pakeha' that are fluent only in english.
    And there are some maori that only speak maori.
     
  22. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    Are there any European Kiwis who speak only maori? Is it regionally driven, as in India?
     
  23. Trippy ALEA IACTA EST Staff Member

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    I have no idea - I can only tell you that I haven't met any.

    And I've already told you that much of this is regionally driven.
     
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