Are you familiar with the ideals put forth by Jesus? If so, do you believe in them? (This can be answered regardless of whether or not you believe in God).
Weren't those the same ideals put forth in the Torah (Old Testament)? I mean, excuse mua, but Jesus was a Jew, after all! (which begs the question: why do you attribute those ideals to Jesus? C'mon, give gredit where credit is due!)
No, I'm not all that familiar with them. So much for the effectiveness of Sunday school for kids. Christianity in general though, has some good points that I agree with.
He won't. It's obvious that Christianity is so repugnant to him that it throws him for a loop (sorry Boris). [This message has been edited by JMitch (edited November 10, 1999).]
Mind you its been quite awhile since I studied the Bible, but I recall no bad taste in my mouth when reading the Gosphels. I believe they are great words to live by. But that is only a very small part of the Bible, and I am shocked at the cruelty in the rest of the Bible. To me it's not important if Jesus walked the earth, or if God literally created man. It's really about how you treat your fellow man. I see more people who call themselves "followers of Christ" who are the most cruel and vengeful people I know. They seem to have only the concept of saying, "I'm a born again Christian, or I'm a Christian", but only that. It's hard to comprehend someone like Pat Robertson, who next to the KKK has made some of the most cruel and hateful statements I've herd recently. I have no use for these kind of people, or their definition of Christianity. To get back on track, yes they are good ideas. My beliefs beyond that point tend to be less Christain and more open to other truths. I don't care to get involved with endless and useless arguments about the rest of it. It cannot be proven one way or the other at this point that the Bible is the Word of God, or that God exists. [This message has been edited by Zapper (edited November 10, 1999).] [This message has been edited by Zapper (edited November 10, 1999).]
Good for you Zapper! Being open to truths is a great thing Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
I have to go along with Zapper on this one. I don't believe in Christianity per se, but there are a lot of good morals that can be gleaned out of the rest of the junk. The way I see it, most religions are comprised of two basic elements - 1. explanation of the world around us (ie. God created the world and all it's inhabitants, life after death, etc) and 2. moral lessons. My theory is that religion came about in order to satisfy those two needs, and what easier way to kill two birds with one stone than to imagine or mentally create a "god" that is responsible for creating our world and is picky about the behavior people exhibit? What a sense of saftey this must give to believers! No matter how bad it gets, no matter how crummy your life is, there's this magical all-powerful being that will tuck you under his loving wing once your life ends and kiss all your boo-boo's goodbye. Sounds great.
Skyeblue, LOL well alright Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! I believe that there are many truths out there to learn from Skye.. for instance, like wicca. I believe that there is a great Spirit Of Truth that gives spiritual wisdom... however, I do believe that when it comes to things that we deal with on a personal level (all the shit) we should be the ones to "fix it". To rely or to depend on some great deity to "fix my every woe" can be damaging because it can make one weak. They certainly cannot learn anything from it...at least I wouldn't think so.
The only real problem I have at all with the principles of Jesus' ministry seems to be modern interpretive subjectivity. This said, I'm happy to leave that issue be for now. But what of the ministry has descended to us is, philosophically, sound. We can argue 'til we're blue in the face about Jesus' context, but the general consensus of forgiveness and patience and trust in God (part of the subjective, I know) seems to be proper. Separating the core philosophy here is one of the ideas I advocate. Christianity's potential to advance humankind rests in the very ideals we are considering in this forum. That's actually why I don't have a problem with Christ, per se. I have read several assertions that Jesus never intended a religion such as Christianity, but that his goals were more immediate and political. This argument, I'm sure, can be left for another day, but it begs a question--what would a social policy which reflects (but does not have to be based solely on) the Christian ideals we're considering here offer to society that it does not have now? thanx, Tiassa ------------------ "Let us not launch the boat until the ground is wet." (Khaavren of Castlerock)
Truestory, The basic idea that Jesus was trying to teach us was, "Do unto others what you would have them do unto you", an idea which seems to be the foundation of many, if not most, of the world's religions. For example, the Wiccan Rede says, "An it harm none, do what ye will", and even Science tells us, "For every action there's an equal and opposite reaction". (Boris, this is your cue to jump in and tell me that I obviously don't understand Newton's third law of motion. Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! ) I certainly can't argue with Jesus' message, nor can I find fault with his common sense and compassion. That doesn't mean I'm ready to sign on the dotted line, if that's what you're getting at, so don't even go there.
Hey, Searcher! I won't tell you where to go and you won't tell me where not to go... O.K.!? Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
