I see evil people, not dead

Discussion in 'Science & Society' started by birch, Mar 9, 2017.

  1. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

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    You have no idea what others have gone through in their lives. If - for whatever reason - society has betrayed someone, and left them marginalized, you can't expect them to show the same respect for the products of that society - symbols of wealth, health and conspicuous consumption - the same as you do.

    You are putting the "value" of an inanimate object as greater than the value of some people who have been marginalized from "decent" society.

    Look behind the damaged objects, at the damaged people.
     
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  3. birch Valued Senior Member

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    Interesting, we can make this excuse for every thought, belief or action past and present with everyone then? Then there is no accountability.

    No, i don't see this as okay even if i grew up marginalized and poor myself which i did so there is not that as an excuse. The silly part of what you say is not that it isn't true but it doesn't apply necessarily to those who vandalize or do graffiti. What makes you think these kids who did this wasn't some middle class kids who just feel entitled or don't have a concern to crap behavior, speech or thought? have you been to school? i don't recall all the ill mannered or bullyish kids being necessarily from poor or marginalized or bad homes. that's all a stereotype that has been way hyped out of proportion and is not realistic.
     
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  5. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

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    I think that's kind of my point.

    I'm not saying it's an excuse for vandalism; I'm saying is vandalism the biggest evil happening here?

    You're taking a unilateral approach to judgment, not considering circumstance. No compassion. It's great that you're pulled yourself up by your bootstraps. Not everyone is so lucky.

    Me, I'd love it if the rest of the world were as "well-adjusted" as I am, but it's not. That's my loss, because I can't empathize with marginalization.

    I would feel pretty materialistic if I put the value of a piano as more important than the squalor of the unfortunate.
     
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  7. Oystein Registered Senior Member

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    As you seem to be implying, no, it isn't. Of course there are different degrees of vandalism, but over-all vandalism of property is a low-level crime verging on nuisance.
     
  8. birch Valued Senior Member

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    Again, you just assume they are in squalor as in homeless squatters and homeless people don't do graffiti as in they are too busy being homeless, hungry and without! Are you kidding me? you've never seen the ridiculous graffiti and vandalism in school bathrooms or wherever people can be as moronic, immature and proud of it, because they don't give a shit who has to clean it up etc or if it's offensive to others??? I grew up in very rough times and i never desired to do that. Check this out: maybe it's because i actually did have serious real problems?? to be a brat who engages in frivolous messages scrawled all willy nilly is pretty damn spoiled and irresponsible. geesh

    And how did i pull myself out of the boot straps? even when i was in difficult or bad situation, i didn't do those things. these are ridiculous and false excuses.

    people will justify the most ridiculous things. believe whatever delusion you want that doesn't make people seem as screwed up as they are and they are because i bet a dollar to a donut that those who did that graffiti were not homeless but some group of kids who were looking to get into some irresponsible fun. it is also a stereotype that it's only done in ghettoes too. that is not true as white kids and middle class white kids do that also. Yeah, as in they have parents, decent home, food and a warm bed to sleep in etc. pfft
     
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2017
  9. C C Consular Corps - "the backbone of diplomacy" Valued Senior Member

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    Petty behaviors and vandalism are likely to affect / disrupt provincial life more visibly, immediately and chance-wise than the grim exploitations and atrocities occurring in Maximum Abomination Land. Thus our everyday preoccupation with and emphasis on exalting (lesser) disreputable personality characteristics and assorted mischief-makings to the status of Evil; and infrequently prescribing that any apocalyptic forebodings should revolve around such as well. Because these affairs are the concrete / real threats and degradations for those abiding in a humdrum context, and thereby should be receiving emotional significance. In contrast to general humanitarian musings and distant rumblings of far greater deliberate devastation and suffering (which may optionally preoccupy the hand-wringing thoughts of similar residents with excess time or void in their lives to fill).

    However, as Neighborhood Sages still advise to recent crops of children new to their stereotypical adages and platitudes: We should intermittently douse ourselves (at least second-hand) in the offal of genuinely insane and malevolent people, events, organizations, domains and regions. Just to acquire a relativistic perspective and have it readily at hand for summoning when the mundane degrees of irritation and balefulness get treated as more dire than what they deserve (when the context is shifted beyond a quasi-sheltered subjective or local community sphere).
     
  10. cluelusshusbund + Public Dilemma + Valued Senior Member

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    I guess what it boils down to is... some kids are just screwed up for no other reason than they are just screwed up.???
     
  11. gmilam Valued Senior Member

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    Speaking as a musician, the spray paint is superficial and minor compared to the damage due to sheer neglect. The wood can be refinished. The damage to the innards due to lack of climate control may be irreparable. Did you hear how out of tune it is? It would probably cost more to repair it than it would to replace it.
     
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  12. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    You've convinced me. Rain and humidity are disgusting and evil, and these horrible, lame effects are destroying all that is good in the world.
     
  13. gmilam Valued Senior Member

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    LOL - My only point is that those who abandoned it did a greater disservice to the instrument than those who spray painted it.
     
  14. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    I agree; was just trying to be funny (and failing.)
     
  15. birch Valued Senior Member

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    i never said these behaviors were the worst technically. i said it is an indication of the seed of what's wrong with people which most people do not think is connected but only see pockets of symptoms when it becomes greater or more serious. and i never said all these kids who did the graffiti are evil or will become evil but i bet some probably are. some are just doing it because of others or peer pressure but will realize the stupidity or wrong later.

    and seriously, where do you think evil exists? only in monetarily impoverished stereotypical third world countries? evil exists in every neighborhood and cranny because people exist in them and they are produced by nature. if evil didn't exist in first world countries there wouldn't be a judicial system, prisons, jails, lawyers, cops and laws. There would be no strife, hate, jealousy, covetousness, sloth, envy, prejudice, hypocrisy, murder, rape, child abuse, bullying, suffering, lying, cruelty, domestic violence, mental/emotional abuse etc etc etc etc. should i go on? do tell what you think evil is and where it is. and those murderers, rapists, child molestors and just horrible and hideous actions and the people who commit them, did everyone forget they were children once? does that mean children are all some pure innocent beings? anyone who was a child and went to school as well as dealt with other children would know children are not innocent or necessarily good, they are individuals just like adults and some are good and some are bad just as some are sweet and some are more malevolent even just by nature not always nurture. that is a fact and the truth which is not considered politically correct because we all would like to believe all children are good and that's not true.

    so you end up with a society of adults who passed from childhood and they did not magically become good or bad people once they became 'adults'. puleeze, that's bs and artificial fantasy.

    i also find it ironic and funny how people can percieve someone when it's the opposite such as that my views are from someone who was sheltered when i wasn't sheltered enough. i would say some of you were more sheltered than me considering you probably just stayed in one school or one area most of your life whereas i attended several as we moved a lot and even overseas so i have a wider breadth of experience and knowledge about this subject dealing with and meeting different children in different environments and one thing was still the same and that is there are good and bad kids just like there are good and bad adults.

    are you honestly saying people don't fuking realize that? you've never met or even witnessed a horrible person in childhood that was still a minor? the actions and character will start to show through such things such as lying, gossip, slander, bullying/cruelty, narcissism, intolerance/prejudice etc etc just as adults do. Yes, all blatant symptoms of sociopathy. And one does not have to get to a stage of actual murder etc to be a bad individual and if that's the moral/social threshold and standard then we know why we have a toxic and trashy society, don't we? there are bad people everywhere and it doesn't start arbitrarily when they hit 18. Be real people!!!
     
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2017
  16. C C Consular Corps - "the backbone of diplomacy" Valued Senior Member

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    Your opening post addressed an "everyday" level of mischief and range of annoying personal characteristics. You wrote with near-universal scope that "I see evil people most everywhere and they aren't even considered evil." You reference graffiti on a piano as an opening example of your topic. Thus my reply revolved around our need for perspective, when we start elevating the everyday disturbances and uncomfortable interactions of our lives to the level of, say, Nazi atrocities (which seems to have become our current, popular, stereotypical historical standard for all-out "evil").

    Should you abide in a neighborhood where there's a rape occurring or a dead body lying in the street circa every morning, then you should have chosen such from the start. Since selecting a defiled piano sets the grade of misconduct which you were lamenting about, establishing a perception of what level is to be taken as "everyday" for you, or at least what you are giving attention to. And accordingly that "everyday" spectrum of events and human personalities is what I attended to. Which fails to match up to the full-blown horrors transpiring in the world that qualify for the upper echelon of "evil" (whether contingently attributed to posh districts, mundane socioeconomic backyards, or impoverished communities).
     
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  17. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

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    You know, not all harm to society is physical.
    Sometimes intolerance and hateful diatribes are a sign of evil too.

    This classic Twilight Zone episode seems apropos:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_O'Clock
    Read the plot.
     
  18. birch Valued Senior Member

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    That's exactly my point but you used an example insinuating this thread and me. Yet the truth is evil is not only personified in the most outlandish symptoms such as the nazis but also intolerance and hateful BUT also evil is most quietly personified by the tolerance of seeds of evil which degrade and toxify a society. These occur through the seven deadly sins.

    Your ignorance comes from the fact the act of 'graffiti' was not about the object itself but the fact that their was a desire to vandalize that which they could just for the hell of it. That is not okay or 'oh they are just innocent good kids'. that was just one video of a rundown home that may not be monetarily worth salvaging. i've seen cases of perfectly good homes that were recently built which were abandoned and you have those who trespass onto it, graffiti it unnecessarily (not art to make a community wall more colorful) just plain nasty vandalism, lurid and obsence writing as well as break anything they can etc. Why? just because they have an opportunity to destroy something. besides it being all illegal. Yeah, that's it! and if you don't find that disgusting or at least be turned off by it then i daresay something is wrong with you or it's resonating with some latent lowlife desire in yourself which your station or image in life may keep you from acting on but you are vicariously half heartedly defending.

    I am not cowtowing to your or cc's lack of common sense and this bullshit that i'm not having perspective. YOU don't have perspective because that shitty behavior is atrocious and not right and is a sign of the character of the individuals that do it, even if the object is not a living being!! And i can almost guarantee you that people who enjoy doing that would also more than likely enjoy vandalizing and harming others if they could get away with it.

    It's always okay to go about committing problems but those who point it out will get into trouble even more even if those actions and those who commit them are actually more troublesome or damaging to society, especially if it's more tolerated. One would have to be naive that 'graffiti' is a one-off but it's just rather a sign of negligence, ill-will possibly and disrespect which will show itself in other ways as they go through society. But enjoy your shitty society because it is one with your ridiculous permissiveness and lax morals.
     
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2017
  19. Oystein Registered Senior Member

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    Somehow I don't believe that graffiti is a great evil, the downfall of mankind. Puulease. Give us a break there birch.
     
  20. birch Valued Senior Member

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    Technically graffiti is inconsequential in the larger scheme of things but it's not when it comes to what drives that motivation which is what i was indicating. Every video i saw there was graffiti and purposeful unnecessary destruction, even where it wasn't just from exposure to elements and neglect. I know it seems silly but in a way it isn't because what does it say about us as a species?? of course you have to take babysteps to get to the point of nazi type of atrocities but still the destructive and malevolent urges as seeds are there.
     
  21. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

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    Ha ha I love it!

    "To question my claims of evil is to be a defender of evil. EVIL!!"

    (When I had the unmitigated temerity to challenge Tiassa's blanket outrage about Nazis, his response was to immediately call me a Nazi lover.)

    These are like caricatures of real dialogue.
     
  22. cluelusshusbund + Public Dilemma + Valued Senior Member

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    What specifically do you suggest that woud improve the situation.???
     
  23. birch Valued Senior Member

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    It's not that heavy but if society stopped praising rebellious that is particularly destructive behavior as 'cool' that would be a start. you really have to wonder where and how these vices which are unhealthy get distorted to a meme they are 'cool' such as ignorance, drinking, smoking, cursing, even cruelty etc while good values and good habits get twisted that it's shameful, embarassing, uncool and such people should be ostracized etc. That is completely backward as well as one of the major reasons why you have such toxicity in society physically and mentally. Some of it is obvious in that those who are of lesser character or ability and that don't want to change would be resentful of those who have more innocent or better habits or tendencies and thus would spin whatever negative traits they possess or do as positive while demonizing actual good if they don't possess it or respect it etc.

    Another bs spin i've seen is that 'vices' are somehow more adult/mature and those who don't engage in them are not just fuddyduddies but naive and relegated to a stereotype of children which is ridiculous. vices are actually the antithesis of intelligence, common sense even and immature/irresponsible. Though we all have some or to some degree or have slipped/fallen off the wagon etc doesn't mean we should start praising them either in ourselves or others giving it a greenlight. at best, don't do anything to support it at all.

    We as a society cannot let this assbackward diabolical stupidity keep going on and call it out when we see it, otherwise it's insanity. Yes, smoking is not so popular anymore but it's not the only one. The few sterling examples of people or youngsters who save their virginity before marriage, don't drink/smoke or drink responsibly/lightly, don't curse, responsible and ethical as well as respectful people etc are great examples, not uncool. Now, it doesn't mean that if one does not adhere strictly to all these actions etc does not mean they are bad, it's just that overall it does have merit.
     
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2017

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