I protest to a thread lock...

Discussion in 'SF Open Government' started by Beer w/Straw, Apr 3, 2018.

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  1. exchemist Valued Senior Member

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    BwS, Birch is a strange customer. Occasionally something seems to go FUNGG!! in her brain and she starts effing and blinding. I don't think there is any real reason for it, so there's not much point reacting to it. If you're feeling pissed off, why not give the forum a rest for a couple of days, and see how you feel then?
     
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  3. Beer w/Straw Transcendental Ignorance! Valued Senior Member

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    I feel that locking the thread only gives legitimacy to "white nationalists" or whatever.

    I didn't care when she said: "fuk off, white bitch. cracker. yeah, that was racist." I felt it was an expression of anger. And psychologically, it's not good to keep anger pent up. Or, in this case, lock the thread.

    And in that sense, the time the thread could have started to be productive, it gets locked.

    :EDIT:

    And yeah, someone could always choose not to post but locking the thread is like denying them of that choice.
     
    Last edited: Apr 4, 2018
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  5. exchemist Valued Senior Member

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    Well maybe, but these forums don't exist to provide therapy for angry people. Generally it is quite unusual for a thread to cool off once the insults have started flying: normally it just gets worse and worse (remember paddoboy?

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    ). I think if I were a mod I would probably have closed it too.
     
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  7. Beer w/Straw Transcendental Ignorance! Valued Senior Member

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    I will concede moderating this forum is not a mathematical science and moderators probably do more behind the scenes just dealing with spam bots.

    And with that, well, I did express my discontent.
     
  8. exchemist Valued Senior Member

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    You did.

    And you're not really leaving us, are you?
     
  9. Beer w/Straw Transcendental Ignorance! Valued Senior Member

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    Well, a moderator hasn't PM.d me in saying I'm "not wanted", but until then, I guess I'll stay
     
  10. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    Why? Locking a thread when such things come up reduces the odds that they will be widely seen. Probably a good thing.
    That may well be. But this board isn't intended to treat people with psychological problems; it's a discussion board first and foremost.
    Some people are quite literally incapable of not posting on such threads.
     
  11. Beer w/Straw Transcendental Ignorance! Valued Senior Member

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    Well, that could be nice *cough* but Donald Trump was elected.

    Can you ignore that?
     
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2018
  12. birch Valued Senior Member

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    now that is a lie. not true in what was going on with that thread.

    the op was spot-on legitimate but it socially and politically ruffled feathers. first, it is rare for racism issues regarding asians to be brought up or almost never in revealing it in some 'cultural' way and that was the problem.

    that is what was strange. in that context, the public (forum) are the strange customer. it wasn't considered acceptable and the usual diversions, minimizing and cheap dismissals were in support or reflection of mainstream attitudes.

    not once was the racism or against the people in the op addressed by anyone who passed by the thread, not even the moderator because she was too busy repeating racism against african-americans (as if that has never or often been opined on). immediately, it was the usual mainstream response that asians are not the only ones who face discrimination which is actually assinine, because socially they face the most and that is often harder to deal with living in a society which is the point of racism. then another member chimes in, again, with an issue that has nothing to do with the thread. there is ignorance in how racism is exercised by the majority of the public which is not in alignment with white nationalist views. it's about westernism or americanism, not about race but racism will be directed toward those who are percieved as less american. there is this idea that people of darker complexion are the ones who are the target of racism and many other incorrect stereotypes of racism i've heard repeated over on this forum which reads stereotypically. i bet these same attitudes and patterns exist in just about most western countries including australia so the idea that racism against asians is more politically acceptable is not new. therefore, it most likely means most on this forum probably one of those who were racist against asians in school or just don't care.

    what is most telling about all of the responses is if it were about blacks or hispanics or even middle-easterners, these diversion tactics or dismissals would most likely not have taken place because it's not pc to do so and even this forum reflects that type of mainstream bigotry.

    bws reactions were just a more raw reflection of these mainstream pc ideas of racism and that is generally, no one on this forum is going to target black or brown people that all their problems may not be due to racism but that they are just a loser or failure. notice her repeated responses (like most) did not have anything to do with the topic but he/she was comfortable dismissing the racism because it's pc to do so when it is an asian. no way would she have had posted and brazenly, especially on a liberal/mainstream forum such as this if the topic was racism against blacks or browns. i already knew that.

    what was telling was that the issue of racism in the op was not addressed by anyone and the focus was just on the poster but that's also a ruse to minimize racism as well as knowing racism against a certain minority is pc. the thread was not even about whites yet that was the focus by whites. it's psychological. most whites or every white person on this forum would be too much of a coward to start a thread regarding white guilt or racism against whites so instead used thread to berate asians and an asian because they viewed the thread as an opportunity to use it as a competition or their oft regarded more oppressed 'pet' minorities that are never racist of course bs or not pc to acknowledge, so how dare you raise issues of racism against asians mindset.

    it's too controversial for most and they are afraid to. also, this frustration of 'white guilt' or framing can't be taken out on minorities with greater representation so it's a sly tactic to punish or belittle asians. but that's the point, other minorities also know this and target asians for being a smaller minority in comparison and therefore having less representation and political power.

    you could tell just the plain truth of the op ruffled feathers and made people uncomfortable. that along with whites, the most opined groups of stereotyped as oppressed were just as blatantly, comfortably and openly racist toward an asian and also, that those stereotypes and racist attitudes have been part and parcel all along.
     
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2018
  13. birch Valued Senior Member

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    that's rich. how people underestimate me constantly. of course, because bringing up racism against asians is just green light and open season to be even more racist against asians. that's pretty much what the thread revealed. it was a good one in that it showcased the general attitudes of society also by the reactions.
     
  14. Beer w/Straw Transcendental Ignorance! Valued Senior Member

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    Wow! birch has a point!

    Because the thread was locked.
     
  15. sculptor Valued Senior Member

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  16. birch Valued Senior Member

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    people on this forum are pretending to not know the general mindset of the public or racist attitudes. asians going the narrow route of higher education straight to professional positions does not negate the overwhelming racism and resentment directed at asians. how this plays out is if you don't have this as an asian, you will be discriminated against more than whites or other minorities in other strata of society. this is because they generally outcompete even whites in western countries. whites are increasingly feeling marginalized in western countries and they can't take that out on groups that have more representation. as well, other minorities target asians (notice most of it is petty criticisms) because that's all they got. it's the same sentiment of white resentment as well as other larger minorities in the west and the sentiment that asians should be criticized and denigrated for something or 'omg, there is an asian that's a failure' so let's discriminate and denigrate them etc to make themselves feel better. nevermind, there are plenty of losers in every race. that's stupid but that's how mainstream public thinks.

    like people haven't figured out why there is so much openly expressed racist stereotypes directed at asians more than any group. you hear penis stereotypes, stature stereotypes, evil communism (it wasn't, a dictatorship) stereotypes, bad driver stereotypes, women are submissive stereotypes, slanty eyes/ugly stereotypes etc. this open, comfortable and acceptable pc to mock asians in general culture? why do you think that is?

    other nations and cultures have evil dicatorships and riddled with problems (why aren't stereotypes made about them?), other ethnicities are short (why do you not hear about them?), other women are submissive (especially middle-eastern and drasticly so, why aren't stereotypes made about them?), others are ugly (why aren't there stereotypes about them?), others have small penises (no stereotypes about them either) others are bad drivers (why don't you hear about them?).

    all the asian people i have known are good drivers like anyone else. i have no problem with parallel parking (often a joke directed at asians) but i've seen others have problems with it and they are not all asian. i've dated outside my race so i know they also vary in size, other women regardless of race can be submissive, and other races have plenty of ugly people without any eastern features.

    where does this blatant cognitive dissonance come from and what is the motivator behind it?

    simple. asians are seen as more competitive/threat so the target of more resentment. harvard's racist admissions policies attest to that though i personally don't think it's a big deal at this point because it's just one school and you don't necessarily need an ivy league education as there are other colleges.

    but to pretend this racism against asians doesn't exist and is almost never admitted to by others is a toleration of racism against asians.
     
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2018
  17. birch Valued Senior Member

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    5,077
    there is something wrong with beer/w straw who is canadian protesting a thread on american racism with articles of jay park on nba page and bts at ama awards on twitter. nothing to do with whites or canadians.

    needs a mental health check.

    the only thing i can point to that may have set anyone off is the racist comments were from every minority including whites. that's the racist diaspora. and that it was pointed out that racism toward asians is considered acceptable in mainstream culture and almost never addressed. this is known by most while others here pretend to be naive babes in the woods. if you've grown up in the west, most observant and honest people are aware of that general social meme, either by being a perpetrator, witness or being an asian.

    for instance, this asian guy was telling the story of racist slurs directed at him on a bus and when he retaliated likewise, the entire bus ganged up on him. he didn't even get physical, he just retaliated likewise. note also no one spoke up when the racist slurs were hurled at him. in this case, it eventually ended up in physical altercation as others tried to physically bully him.

    i've noticed the ones that end up bitter or racist themselves are the ones who didn't grow up around other asians or in areas where it was more racist as well as lacked support all around such as extended family like the instance of the guy above. his story is similar to mine.

    those who grew up in asia and emigrate as adults are less likely to be affected as deeply but growing up in a culture that is racist and prejudiced against you in your formative years creates more scars as well as lack of positive role models (if not at home), then there are none in the media. one of the positives of the black and hispanic communities is the group identity cohesion so that actually does help and create a buffer but asians are not actually like that as much in the west as it is stereotyped. most of them are quite miniscule in number, alone and scattered in most parts of the country except a few concentrated areas, mostly on the west coast.

    a lot of asians have similar stories but the double standard when the public does not defend them but are punished or ostracized for retaliation. it is not true that it's always due to not fighting back, it's that they are outnumbered in western society. they are only about 4 percent of the population and that's mostly california and hawaii and there are fifty states.

    it's actually cowardly because there is this unconscious idea that one can get away with being racist toward asians through the idea of some type of protectionist rights or they are more american (white, black, hispanic/brown) so have a right to attack asians for having a foreigner stigma.
     
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2018
  18. birch Valued Senior Member

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    5,077
    i remember that anywhere i happen to be, i was the only asian whether it was in a store, theater, restaurant, or even walking down the sidewalk etc. anytime i ever saw an asian was when i went specifically to an asian restaurant or college campus. sometimes on the job but that's it. they were nowhere to be found in mainstream america. once i went into a golden corral that i used to get takeout from and i saw a few asians quickly getting their takeout five minutes before closing. most asians tend to avoid racism or stay invisible rather than face it head-on. on the west coast, you see them out and about everywhere like anyone else living their life but in more racist areas, they just hide. that's one way to deal with it.

    of course, things change gradually. asians are not as targeted for racism as much as before. another thing i've noticed is that other cultures don't accept you based on abstract political idealization, its' commercialization, commerce and exchange of cultures.

    for instance, i bet you that north korea will be won over eventually by their people wanting mcdonalds and iphones and will be a more effective push to opening up their country to democracy than talks between political leaders. it's corporations and money that will be really effective.

    it's entertainment, cuisine, fashion, products etc that adds to others life that win people over, not politics. ironically.

    yes, as strange as it seems, it's not the president or ambassador pow-wows that really affect the global stage and minds of people.

    it is samsung and lg phones/washing machines/fridges, nature republic/sephora/ face shop/skin food, kpop/kdramas, fashion (asian fashion is hot on the new york fashion runways, for instance but it's been popular online worldwide for awhile), cosplay, anime, sushi, k-bbq, curry and ramen chains etc that win people over and open their mind to a more global concept. there is too many products and chains from the east filtering to the west to list but it's stuff people 'want' or enjoy that win people from other cultures over and therefore eventually the people themselves. trump isn't doing and not going to do that even if he wanted to. lol.

    and another thing that is often overlooked and has had the greatest social, cultural, political and ideological impact globally? that's right: youtube. many collaborations between people and companies from different countries/cultures were started because of youtube. otherwise, they not only would be unaware of eachother but also have no medium to access or start communication. it educates and opens minds to other cultures, people, viewpoints, products, experiences, politics, education, cuisine etc. it's endless.
     
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2018
  19. Beer w/Straw Transcendental Ignorance! Valued Senior Member

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    Well, Trump opting out of the Paris accord...

    Anyway, I take it you believe that thread shouldn't have been locked.
     
  20. exchemist Valued Senior Member

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    Quod scripsi, scripsi.
     
  21. Bells Staff Member

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    *Sigh*

    Birch

    Not a single person in that thread has said that racism against Asian minorities in the US does not exist. You seem to be demanding that everyone has said that it does not exist, when not a single person made such a claim.

    You also claimed that there is more racism towards Asians in the US than towards African Americans, Hispanics, Native Americans. That is provably wrong and I provided you with various links from Asian scholars who actually spend their careers studying attitudes towards Asians in the US, who argued that the discrimination and racism Asians experienced was not the same as what African Americans, for example, experienced. To the one, the history of dehumanisation of African Americans and Native Americans in particular, is vastly different and ongoing to the racism Asians experience.

    You seem to be treating it as a competition. It is not. It's not even comparable. The experiences are so vastly different, as is the history.. It is literally like comparing apples to oranges. Two completely different things.

    If you are going to ignore actual history and make claims based on social media responses to a K-Pop star, while ignoring actual studies and historical fact, then people will pull you up on it.

    I'll repeat again, no one suggested that Asians do not face racism, bigotry or discrimination in the United States. I provided you with links to show how and where the discrimination affects them the most (housing, some forms of employment, financial discrimination) and particularly which groups from the Asian continent who live or are Americans are most affected and how and why. I also provided you with links that explain the historical context of the bigotry from other minorities, not to excuse it or suggest it does not exist, but to explain why it started to begin with.

    And I will say it again, no one has suggested that the racism and discrimination against and towards Asian Americans is acceptable.

    What is not acceptable and was not acceptable in that thread was:

    1) Racial stereotyping
    2) Name calling that bordered on racist attacks against others
    3) The deliberate misrepresentation of what people were saying
    4) The deliberate refusal to actually discuss the issue and instead lob accusations of 'you're racist, no you are, no you are, and so on and so forth'
    5) The general douchiness of the whole thread and discussion.

    And this applies to several people who participated in that thread.
     
  22. birch Valued Senior Member

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    5,077
    start your own thread on white racism or canadian racism. you used my thread to whine and play the victim.
     
  23. birch Valued Senior Member

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    i note you had to make these statements in the past tense. this is the problem with your perception on racism. you keep thinking it's the same as before. there was a time in the past, the irish were very discriminated in america. now, they are not. no one even notices.

    you keep assuming that african americans, native americans (no one even notices them apart from anyone else anymore), hispanics are more discriminated and that is not true. they started to get negative attention when they burned the american flag ala raza. there are those who disagree with you today. they have witnessed it. african-americans are a group that is largely entrenched and viewed as americans and you seem to think any racism is due to white nationalist type sentiments (everyone non-white) and most people are not like that in america but quite a many whites, blacks and hispanics are still racist toward asians.

    the only other things that you repeatedly bring up is between african-american males and the police. the police use racial profiling but they are not representative of mainstream american culture or attitudes. for instance, african-american females are not targeted for police profiling to the same degree as males.

    what makes you think african-americans are so discriminated today? by whom? have you lived in america?

    i bet you if you and i were walking down any street in america, i would be more targeted for racism than you, including the south.
     
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