i need phsycological help..

Discussion in 'Human Science' started by NMSquirrel, Oct 4, 2010.

  1. NMSquirrel OCD ADHD THC IMO UR12 Valued Senior Member

    that which we think/contemplate (not know)
    that which applies to the mind

    that which applies to how we feel

    that which applies to our bodies
    i tend to use this for knowledge also, the things we know to be true, IE fire burns, if we jump off a cliff we will die, i tend to think of this as a more tangible than think. that which is proven to be.
    (although it could be argued this belongs in mental)

    that which transcends logic..see spirituality (wiki)
    not saying belief in a god is the only way for this one, but it is the standard.
    you don't have to believe in god to be spiritual
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  3. answers Registered Senior Member

    You might want to do some research on those classifications. You are missing a hell of a lot.

    Also I completely disagree with what you are saying about spirituality. Read the book "How We Know What Isn't So" by Thomas Gilovich.

    The problem with your classifications and theories is that you are ignoring 131 years of psychological research.
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  5. NMSquirrel OCD ADHD THC IMO UR12 Valued Senior Member

    i have never said my opinions/observations are scientifically founded..( that doesn't mean they can't be)
    i have asked for help to complete these observations..
    yes i know that they need some serious professional help..that is why i asked for help..
    you have been helpfull to an extent..you seem to be approaching this from a ' is he right or wrong' view instead of a 'how can we make it right' point of view..
    don't get me wrong..i do appreciate your input..you have suggested a couple things that i did not consider..
    and i did choke on the spiritual description..my brain chose that moment to go blank...

    and could you post/send/link something about that book?
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  7. answers Registered Senior Member

    If you want a taste of what's in that book, read my report on The Psychological Mechanism Behind Why Parents Blame Vaccines For The Ill-Health of Their Children.


    The book explains why people form incorrect beliefs. This includes 'spiritual' beliefs.

    Spirituality can be logically explained. It is a belief system based on a set of faulty psychological mechanisms. Ignoring things such as regression to the mean, base rates and chance occurrences.

    The book is here: http://www.amazon.com/How-Know-What-Isnt-Fallibility/dp/0029117062

    The reason why I am pointing out things that are wrong with your theories, is because that's how you figure out how to make a good theory. You adjust your problematic theory.

    Can you please explain to me how your theories will contribute to the existing body of psychological teaching?

    So what's the point of them? What will they do that existing theories and teachings don't already do?
  8. NMSquirrel OCD ADHD THC IMO UR12 Valued Senior Member

    yes..i understand this..but i also understand it is more productive to approach it like..
    (warning,rehash of old argument)

    user1 2+2 = 5
    user2 2+2=4, here is how..

    user1 2+2=5
    user2 wrong..

    first example explains truth second does not.

    or another way is 'do you mean' or 'it would be more accurate to say'
    in my case alot..i tend to grab the wrong word so it tends to fight my clarity

    and this adjustment is what i am after..

    i think it would be more of a self awareness as to our state of being, to not blame the person in front of you for your feelings of worth, as most of the time it is not their fault..this assumes a control of our emotional state..IE not filling ones communication with slams and insults..

    what will they do that others do not?
    i think this is more of a different way of thinking about what we already know.
    not everyone learns the same way..
    what will they do to existing theory's?
    support them..

    as i said (i think in the OP) this is not new..it is just another way of thinking about it..you have heard mind,heart,body and soul..the mental,emotional,physical,spiritual is just expanded thinking..or another way to put it is think,feel,know,believe..
    what do i think about it (any given subject)
    what do i feel about it?
    what do i know about it?
    what do i believe about it?

    most ppl tend to only focus on the feel part of it..and no matter how you phrase it they take it as a 'who are you to tell me how i feel' thing.

    something else to add..
    i have noticed throughout my life that there are some concepts i have noticed and have tried to communicate only to fail miserably at communicating such concepts, only to later discover someone else has communicated that concept clearer than i, and that concept was accepted.
    this is where i am at with this..i believe i have something good to contribute but my education/experience/own state of being gets in the way..

    the questioning helps as i am better at answering questions than i am to spell it out..
  9. NMSquirrel OCD ADHD THC IMO UR12 Valued Senior Member

    this excerpt, validates my observations..

    parent two does not want parent one to feel 'bad' about naming their child something ridiculous..so they lie to them..
    this falls into what you were saying about false self esteem issues..it is not justifiable(IMO) to lie to someone just to spare their feelings..this would be a case of too much focus on the emotional state of being and the desire to avoid feelings of worthlessness.

    and also the article doesn't address those that are looking for their sense of worth by grabbing that issue and running with it..
    IOW some ppl are instructed by their peers to 'stand up' for something,and that person can be very influential/charismatic, whether they believe in the issue or not, by standing up for it, it gives them a sense of worth because so many are agreeing with them and supporting them..this also ties into the responsibility of those unwilling to step up and take responsibility..IE i like what he is saying, i will follow him, let him take the risks, if we fail we will just blame him..
  10. NMSquirrel OCD ADHD THC IMO UR12 Valued Senior Member

    i want to read that book..it looks interesting..
    hopefully i will remember to look for it when i can afford it..(work has been dead recently)
  11. answers Registered Senior Member

    You need to read a lot about this subject before writing anything. Do a literature review.

    I have acccess to all the journal databases etc... search google scholar and find the articles that are relevent (you'll have access to the abstracts but not the full articles), pm me your email address with the details of the articles you want, I'll download the pdf of the articles and email them to you.

    I'm really busy right now, but I'll try to help you out.

    Here's a link to a google scholar search to get you started:

    http://scholar.google.com.au/schola...motional control&as_sdt=2000&as_ylo=&as_vis=0
  12. Mystical Sadhu Registered Member

    States of being include both crude and subtle. Perhaps the crude are more readily conspicuous, to uneducated and moral retards as well as to exceedingly encyclopedic people and morally evolved people as well. The subtle realms exist, whether or not a person has the maturity to acknowledge them and cultivate them in personal life and foster the wellbeing of others as well.

    States of denial, cultural and intellectual insufficiency, cultural chauvinism, and materialistic bigotry are among some of the reasons that Western institutionalists of psychology have not acknowledged the whole of human psychology, and consequently stifle the progress of people, people born to be more than fodder for the conceits of intellectual imperialists.

  13. NMSquirrel OCD ADHD THC IMO UR12 Valued Senior Member

    IOW don't underestimate the effect a spiritual state of being can have on the health of our whole being..
  14. answers Registered Senior Member

    Where's the evidence for the spiritual state?
  15. Mystical Sadhu Registered Member

    Most conspicuously, Samadhi.

    Last edited: Oct 19, 2010
  16. Mystical Sadhu Registered Member

    Does IOW = "I", or is that an abbreviation of something?

  17. NMSquirrel OCD ADHD THC IMO UR12 Valued Senior Member

    In Other Words
  18. NMSquirrel OCD ADHD THC IMO UR12 Valued Senior Member

    when it comes to the human condition it does not matter whether there is evidence of it or not..

    what matters is the effect it has on ppl..

    IOW i don't want to get into a discussion in this thread as to whether it exists or not..
    which gives me the opportunity to ask you answers..

    what is your current vocation?
    it sounds like you have a more than basic interest in the psychological..
    what is your education? experience?
    how long have you been at it?

    i ask cause if you have been doing it for a while i would think that you would realize your question would be be moot.
  19. answers Registered Senior Member

    3 years Bachelor of Psychological Sciences.
    Going into honours next year.
    I work as a research assistant at the Australian Institute of Suicide Research and Prevention
    I'm currently working on 2 research projects.
    I run my own counselling business.
    And I have been counselling for a crisis line for nearly a year and a half.

    Please explain to me why there doesn't need to be any evidence to support the definitions of proposed psychological mechanisms?
  20. NMSquirrel OCD ADHD THC IMO UR12 Valued Senior Member

    WTG and grats..i tried to take a psych course when i was younger..didn't last through the first class..(too many unknown words..too young) in hindsight i should have stuck with it.. (back then i quit things way too easily)

    no evidence is needed for a spiritual state of being..but i will not argue what constitutes effect from a spiritual side..IE i cannot say x will work for your spiritual state of being..IOW i won't say go to church/find god to satisfy your spiritual side..i have seen ppl who try and fail at that..but thats another thread..(these are the types of ppl who you give advice to, and they run with it,praising that they are cured because of it,when you know they are not)(there is pry a term for this)

    ppl throughout history have been seeking enlightenment, most through worship of some god or another, others by following the teachings of 'masters'.(pry other ways also but mind is blank)
    i think the spiritual side of us ties in with wisdom and that which we get when logic fails,faith is defiantly tied to our spiritual side.

    whether you believe in god or a spiritual side of our nature, i think you can see that it does have an effect on ppl..

    i would think accepting things that are out of our control is part of that spirituality..like the old prayer..

    god grant me the courage to change what i can,
    the serenity to accept the things i cannot,
    and the wisdom to know the difference

    something to share to tie in with your profession and my faith..
    i have tried twice when i was younger to kill myself (hence OCD with worthlessness)..after the second time failed, i promised myself the third time was up to god.
    (this is how i determined god has a sense of humor..but that another story)

    also where would you put faith?
  21. answers Registered Senior Member

    Sounds like you've had it tough in the past, but it's good to hear that you are doing better now.

    The problem with the spiritual explanation for behaviour, is that it is not the most parsimonious explanation. Parsimony simply refers to having the simplest explanation rather than a more complex one. For example you can say that the sun rises in the morning because the earth orbits the sun due to gravity, or you could say that the earth orbits the sun because huge invisible dragons flap their wings and that blast of wind pushes the earth around the sun.

    If there is a simpler, more logical, explanation for something that is supported by current research and evidence, then that trumps an explanation that is not logical, more complex, not supported by research and evidence.

    So take for example human needs theory, there's a few variations of this, but good old Tony Robbins makes it pretty simple.

    Humans needs:

    Love and Connection

    Think about these as motivators for spirituality.

    Certainty: a god/religious belief fulfills this need
    Significance: a god/religious belief fulfills this need
    Love and Connection: a god/religious belief fulfills this need
    Varitey: a god/religious belief fulfills this need
    Growth: a god/religious belief fulfills this need
    Contribution: a god/religious belief fulfills this need

    People get addicted to drugs that fulfill 2 or 3 of their needs. Imagine just how much more addictive spirituality is when it fulfills all of your needs.

    Spirituality is simply something people believe in to fulfill needs. It doesn't matter that it's not real.

    As for faith. Faith is ignorance parading as knowledge. Faith is simply a psychological mechanism people use to justify a spiritual belief system that fulfills their needs. It does not matter that spirituality is based on no evidence, faith takes care of that. People will be spiritual despite their intellectual reasoning, because they feel it is more advantageous to fulfill their needs and be fundamentally wrong in their beliefs, rather than be correct in their beliefs and not fulfill their needs. That's why religious people seldom ask for evidence for their beliefs, why do you need logical reasoning and evidence when something is already fulfilling your needs?

    There are other ways to fulfill your needs which don't require religion. Just like there are other ways to fulfill your needs for significance and variety which don't require cocaine.

    Just because it fulfills needs, doesn't mean it a good thing.
  22. NMSquirrel OCD ADHD THC IMO UR12 Valued Senior Member

    there are still times when i want to run away from the real world..(specially when finances are slim)(like now)(hence the desire to write a book and make a mil..see below) so its not necessarily better..its more like the older i get the more useless it is to stress about it..

    (also here i have the benefit of proofreading before i post to eliminate any undesired content..don't have that in real life..once its said you cant take it back in real life..(i like to complain, its my vent))

    that is just like i said.
    the fact that so many ppl want this..gives it value..
    it is not practical to try to convince ppl there is no god,that religion needs to be deleted (not god), that there is no such thing as spirituality. all that would happen is you would hit a brick wall..
    i seriously would avoid the word ignorance.. i understand the meaning, but its still a negative word and as a result puts ppl on the defensive.

    i would define it as more of an acceptance without understanding,not everyone is capable of understanding certain things.depending on how it is used is whether faith is a good thing or a bad thing..

    why i want 1 million..
    i am a contractor, i can build a house..with 1 mil i could build 5 maybe 6 houses move into one and put the rest up for rent at 1000 a month(typical rent for a house around here), that would give me 5k a month (when they are all rented) i could retire and just take care of those houses till i die, then my daughter can take them over and either sell them or keep renting them..
    trying to save that much just doesn't work in my case..like i said god has a sense of humor..IE everytime i get into a position to earn more money something happens..case in point..current economy..no one is spending money right now in my area..
  23. M00se1989 Banned Banned

    I like the chart and I believe to a certain extent on the things we focus on, as we get older. It is slightly different from this chart, but the chart does follow different areas of study.

    As a new born we have none of these ideals. As we grow old we learn different aspects to this chart based on the education and knowledge we receive on a daily basis. Everything we know is learned in some way or another, including our attitudes toward people who studied different aspects of what we call life. As you grow ever older you are settled into your beliefs and at times loose what is important. You may struggle against others for the things you want, But in the end we all get what we need. Your belief system fades as you see tragedies, and again when you see miracles, but in the end do we not all wish for more?

    More words to speak to give another something to cling to in life. more words, the simple melodies that bring consciousness to our thoughts. more words to speak after we are gone. This is why the wisest of people always have a way with words. They have studied the skill their whole life, but today the young speak not to the elderly. We speak not to the wisest of men except to use them for their strong words. The infinite nemonic devices that lead us into a stable mind. So is your life a Comedy, a Tragedy, or a Miracle of any kind of poetic justice?

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