((( I, Hereby, Announce The Fall Of Atheism Forever ))))

yes, stop being so narrowminded and accept that a white man with a long beard who has existed forever and is all loving but will kick your ass if you cross him created the universe and rules our destiny.

Its the only logical presumption.

 

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Flores rant:

Because cheap shot, cynical remarks, and confirming one's own narrow preconceived ideas is all that oozes out of you.

An excellent example of the pot calling the kettle black.

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Your logic stinks......Did your grandfathers use similar logic when they corrupted the bible with their illogical interpretations?

 

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Oh, do you normally hear pots calling the kettle black, because I'm sorry to tell you that you're officially nuts.

Don't worry when the TV talks back at you when you yell at sports game, that's an expected course for your diseace.

 

well, i certainly dont think my grandfathers were buissy interpreting the bible, but FYI there is no logical way to interpret the bible being that it urges you to make war on logic by using faith. That is beleiving in something in the absence of logic.

 

I defy you to define faith, and also please refute the fact that faith is the only tool motivating science and it's advancement.

Our faith and believe in protecting the human race is what drives every medical advancement.

Our faith in the idea of liberty and freedom is what drives political decisions.

Our faith in preserving our environment is the driving factor beside our study of biology and environmental sciences.

Our faith in continuing living is the driving factor in procreating and preserving our lives.

Without faith, we are robots. Below animals, for even animals have faith to a certain degree.

 

faith makes people into robots, its the belief of something without any evedence. Faith is what the church and other faith based orginizations use to control people without any good reason.

All those things you chalk up to faith are self interest. We research medical technology because we want to live longer.

we protect the environment be cause we like how it looks, and its got its own usefullness.

we protect political freedom (sort of) because we dont want to get pushed around by a government. There isnt anything of faith in these things.

and no, animals dont have faith, they dont believe in anything as thats a little high minded for them. Animals are a pretty layed back croud, not much philosophising among them you know.

 

Well, so long as every human being in the world is born an atheist, I assume that at least some of them will manage to make it through early life without being indoctrinated, or brainwashed, so I doubt very much that Atheism will ever die out completely. You just can't reach everyone, and thank god for that

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Faith into ideas, provide vision, which makes us see outside the box. It's the rope that delivers you to the future. Without faith, we are robots stuck in our own vomit or ideas.

And what is selfinterest drawn from. Isn't believing in the important of self, the reason that we develop the need to protect our self interest. So we have faith in ourselves, and that's what drives us to build casteles around us.

Ditto, our interest in environment stems from a vision and faith of how the environment should be. Our faith in doing the right thing is what motivates us to preserve.

Again because of our faith in liberty and freedom. Why do people build things in their names and try to make their names known to the future, it's due to their belief in themselves, their lifes and their mission.

So if animals don't have faith and Atheists don't have faith, does that equate an animal to an Atheist. Pretty accurate I would say. Try to steal a baby animal from it's mother and you'll see belief and faith in the animal world. Animals have cares and interests.

 

Flores

I defy you to define faith

The theist definition of faith is a strong belief in a supernatural power or powers that control human destiny while the non-theist definition is a complete confidence in a person or plan.

I’d be very interested in knowing which animals’ exhibit either definition.

 

Its a carnival! Watch as strongman Flores streches and warps a word past all meaning!

I guess the problem here is that Flores has faith that god is on his side so he can do whatever he wants in the argument, including agree with me for a whole post and say he was right and act as if i was agreeing with him.

thats another thing about faith, since its not based on any evedence or logic you cant argue with somone with it, because like the robot they are they arnt open to new ideas, its all about the programing.

 

How can an Atheist have complete confidence in a person or plan while only two things are certain to an Atheist, that they are born and that they'll die. Don't you think it's an over exagetation to think that you're in contol while you can't even control your coming and leaving of this earth.

Salmon for example, travels thousands and thousands of miles without knowing anything about the route or destination to cold waters of Europe, then they swim back upstream to the little creek they were born in so they can die. How does science explain this?

 

It's is Strongwoman Flores please, 29 mother of two, civil engineer, MS, PE. Speciality in the area of hydraulics/hyrology and stream restoration/sediment transport. And thanks for the compliment. I indulge in giving words new meanings.

She please, and I don't do the god is in me and on my side and that crap. God forbid, I would ever agree with, and if it seemed like it for a second, please take it back.

Interesting. And you with all your might aren't able to find the simple convincing words to undo my bad programming. I used to say in college that a teacher who can't deliver the most complex idea is hiding behind complexity and doesn't understand the basics himself.

 

Its instinct, the fish dont believe anything about it either way, they just do it. Faith, despite being illogical still requires somone to be able to hold concepts in thier minds. The fish arnt thinking "The lord wants me to go back to this stream!" they are just doing it because the behavior is hardwired into them. This behavior is probably useful because if a stream sired one genereation of salmon it can probably do it for the next.

Also athists arnt "Only certain of two things". Athisits come in flavors, some would say that those two things arnt even certain and others would say there is a hell of a lot more that is reasonably certain. Not to mention that most everyone believes you dont NEED to be absolutely certain about something to take action based on it. If what you do turns out wrong then you know that maybe you need to investigate that thing you were almost certain about a little further.

 

Are you crazy or something. Please explain scientifically instinctal powers of forces. Where exactly in the fish brain do we pragram travel routes from US to England and mark all the current exists? It doesn't occur to you for a second that an instinct is obeying external forces.

And yes, the fish exactly goes like that, the lord wants me to go from here to there. They are obeying an external natural force, that we call god. Just like planets are obeying those forces and revloving around orbits, but your brain seems to be less efficient than fish and deny obeying the external forces. You probably thought that planets are singing ringing around the rosies with your weak Atheist knowledge, because I defy you to give me the single cause for planet continuous movement.

 

No, hes not crazy. Insting starts out in the small, and evolved over thousands and millions of years.

Flores, do you really need that mystical old man in the sky to explain all of these "scientifically unexplainable" phenomena in this world?

 

I see you also indulge in making shit and justifying things because you are sooooooo scared to even think that there is a universal force in charge of you. You would attribute Salmon complicated trips to evolving. I see, so the Salmon used to take hikes to the Carebean, then they evolved to taking brisk runs to the Atlantic, then now a day after thousands of years, they finally make the full trip in sprints. Wow, your justification is as good the Ring around the Rosie justification of planet movements. And I assume, your Darwin have been following fish migration patterns for thousands and millions of years to arrive to such a speedy nonsense justification.

 

i dont know, you seem scared to contemplate that there is not. But really if you are going to start cursing a lot and talking a lot of nonsence then why should we take you seriously? Who said anything about fish hiking but you? Who said anything about planets obeying some kind of mystical nonsencical force but you? Yet you seem to accuse other posters of doing it.

 

I don't know, but common sense says that it's the presence of something that causes the fear, not the absence of. I don't hear of people scared of the absence of ghosts and the non existance of monsters......

If you want me to curse, all you have to do is ask or make blanket ignorant comments. Don't entice me so much, I'm a human with limited patience.

Well, then don't let my imagination run wild and explain to me in detail how does evolution result in modified fish migration patterns and modified instinctal behavior. And who said mystical nonsencical force, I merely said external forces, but you seem not to be able to get your mind out of the gutter it's in. And by the way, the tide obeys gravitational forces which are external forces, and we don't call the tide movement crazy for obeying such forces.

 

Guys,
Keep the thread alive, I'll be back tomorrow. I have suicide bomber training camp and praying sessions at the "Muslim Moms for War" center that I can't miss. Plus, my three other cowives are expecting me to cook dinner tonight.