I hate being a white male.

I agree that white males suffer prejudice. But saying "just like everybody else", is equivalent to saying they suffer as much as everybody else. This is where my complaint comes in.

I believe VH1 is just fine for the white audience.

Do you see black celebrities acting like minorities do among themselves when they are at parties with whites?
It is just an observation of things. There is usually a lot more "civilized" behavior, more formalities and boresome niceties to go around the table in these get togethers.

I believe prejudice is inherent and without just cause. An incurable disease, to be exact.

 

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Spoken like a true genius who understands the words of his fellow. Just brought tears to my eyes thinking of Undercover Brother..

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Haha, that's right, just like everyone else! Oh no, there are negative stereotypes against white people too! Waahhh! haha. Whites crying about discrimination in this country always cracks me up. Living as both a white male and a gay male, and knowing a thing or two about how discrimination feels, I can honestly say that I've never particularly felt any bitter sting of intolerance from being a member of the majority race. My advice to you would be to quit being so damned emo, it makes you look whiny.

Well this is a rather comical oversight? You think that W.E.T. doesn't exist? What about ABC NBC and CBS?

 

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No, VH1 is for homosexuals.

 

Its acceptable to make fun of white males because they are clearly number one.
Politically incorrect people make fun of those who deserve it; the poor, the weak, the stupid, the fat, the ugly, etc. The politically correct media does the opposite, fun needs to be made, so the most secure sect of humanity is targetted; the white male.
Mocking white males will obviously not hurt the self esteems of white males, because every second of every day we are bombarded by the insane amount of accomplishments the white male has made. Its just obvious we aren't actually inferior to anything so its ok to say we are. Call a thin person fat and its taken as light hearted and friendly, call a fat person fat and its just mean.
Other races/ other sects of humanity, aren't as secure. African americans can't escape that nagging reality that white men dragged them out of the jungle and gave them underpants. It really bothers them, probably on a subconscious level. Now look how much harder they try to impress, and how badly they tend to want to make fun of white people. How proud they will be when a black person does anything of note. White males are jaded, we're white males, we're more interested in proving we as individuals are something special. The status of our race/gender is well and truely confirmed.
Females too, are a little insecure, they know that while "humanity" was making huge leaps and bounds, they were preparing "humanities" food. They weren't actually involved with all the things that make humanity so impressive. They just helped in producing more males. So they were kind of embarrassed and ashamed and blamed the white male (as you do), had a big uprising and tried to make out that landing an office job was comparable to walking on the moon and building skyscrapers. They knew it wasn't and they're still ashamed, and they blame the white male, as does everyone else for their own shortcomings.
And we have to take it, we should. It is our fault when you really think about it. Its our fault for being so damn amazing, setting up standards impossible for them to match, and then living alongside them. How are they going to feel? History + our existence is bound to make them kind of snarky. We're like a peacock who's tail feathers are just a thousand times more brilliant than every other's on the estate, the other peacocks obviously won't be too happy with our presence and are going to try and pluck a few of those feathers out.
We shouldn't take it personally, its natural.
I think they like us really, they certainly will expect us to protect them from the invading aliens, thats a given.
The inevitability of that event's eventual occurence is always in the back of their minds, so while they poke fun, we can be sure they respect us deep down inside.

 

Unfortunatly, I am using a local terminology in a discussion which can be viewed from around the world. In my expirience, on the eastern seaboard of the US, racism is alive and well. However, it has, particularly in the more northern areas, made a shift over the past 30 years.
For the most part, "Black People" are not outright prejudiced against (overall). At least not by the poor, the lower middle class, or most of the upper middle-class. The very wealthy still seem to have a lingering blanket racism, but that seems to be the main group with this problem. The police certainly still profile, despite repeated claims to the contrary.
However, there is a cultural racism which still exists across the board, particularly obvious between African-Americans and Caucasian-Americans; though it does also exist with Mexicans, Latinos, and Asians. There is a stereotypical "hip-hop black person" in the mind of most people - men based on the inner-city 20-ish male who listens to hip-hop and talks in thick ebonics, using the word 'nigga' to introduce everyone he is friends with; women based on the Jerry Springer "uh-uh, no she di-int!" female.
They are racist images, and I encounter them on a daily basis, in both the "white" (stereotype definition: kakhis and button-down shirt, quiet, educated) and the "black"(stereotype definition: hip-hop dress, loud behavior, angry) cultures. This stereotype, however, is defined by attitude, and not by skin color.
There are white-skinned individuals, like eminem, who present themselves as part of the black hip-hop culture, and after fighting for respect within it, are treated as one of that culture. They recieve the same sort of racism from the 'white' crowd (ie, educated as any black person who lives in the 'hip-hop' Afican-American community. Black people who act 'white' recieve, IME, as much black-racism as the white people who act black (from the 'white' culture).
It is not as much the skin color as it is the attitude presented. IMO, that's what Cosby was talking about. You can be a highly intelligent African-American with six PHD's, but you will be heavily limited in your job selection if you look and act like Snoop-dogg. Not just because of racism in the hiring market, but because you will be limiting your customer base. People, even those who do not act in a racist manner, have certain expectations of those they put in charge of their money, their freedom, their health. For now, that image is the educated image, and the educated image is considered by many to not be the hip-hop image.

I didn't mean to say that acting 'white' was a requirement for prosperity. What I meant was, in order to be successfull in the intelletucal industries, academics, medicine, computer science, law, etc, you (currently) have to act in accordance with the existing system. This sytem is still seen by a majority of both the white and the black communities as 'The Man's' system (though that term is outdated, the idea still appears to hold) - from public school on up. Ebonics is not readily accepted in those areas; by either co-workers or customers.


However, the same could be said for the entertainment industry 50 years ago. Through the very hard work and determination of many, many people, that industry has gone from Elvis being banned because of his black sound and black dancing to a shining example of the stereotypical American Black culture (as opposed to African-American culture, which encompasses all spectrums of the educational and social scale) as a perectly practical lifestyle - including a customer base.
Maybe through the hard work of people today we will see a change in the medical, law, etc professions, and by the time I have kids discussing this topic, those industries will be as diverse as the music industry.
There is a very good chance that all of this is simply the leftover predjudice of a dying era. I personally wouldn't mind if it went away. but for right now, it's still here.

note: the same sort of predjudice occurs agaist the mostly white skate-board crowd. No hip-hop, but baggy jeans, hard rock, loud and boisterous attitude. Again, there's no problem with you identifying yourself with that subculture, but you will have to expect that people will make certian assumoptions about you, based on the pop culture idea of what a skater "is"; in particular, as a person who can't work hard in the 'real world.'

This is the difference. I'm not saying that people of different skin color don't or can't eat together. That happens all the time, wonderfully. What I mean is that the 'black' and 'white' cultures I defined above, defined by attitude, tend not to intermingle. If you have dark skin, and want to eat at the fancy hotels, the black-tie dinners, etc, that's fine. But you are expected to act in a certain way, or have so much money that you can pay people to not toss you out. It's buisness. Does your money offset the lost money of customers offended by your attiude? If so, you can buy acceptance. If not, you are out on your ear because of your behavior.
If you are white, and want to eat at an inner-city block party, that's also fine. However, you are also expected to act in a certain way. To treat people with a certain level of respect, to be a confident in yourself, and expressive. As a side note, this group tends to be, IME, more accepting of different people and different attitudes, though it still does take a while to be accepted (as I mentioned above). This is the group I tend to hang out with; though it is more due to a difference in attitude that is a result of financial status, and not cultural or skin differences.

As I said above, I'm using slang there, which seems to have caused confusion. An educated mind is what qualifies for a job, however, presentation more often than not is what actually gets that job. The "Yo, Dog!" presentation will not get someone a job, and will more often than not override the qualities of inteligence and education in the mind of a recruiter.
When I was suggesting that a person had to 'act white' in order to get a job as a doctor, what I meant was: a person, to best maximise their chances of being hired to a high-paying medical position, needs to present themselves as an educated person. There are two ways of doing this:
1) Proving the knowledge. A person can act however they want as long as they still get the job done in this culture. that is a big part of freedom which we hold so dearly in this country. If you can go into an office, be the best person for the job, you get the job, and you excel at it. No matter how you dress, how you act, etc.
2) Proving the appearance of the knowledge. This is the reality. Esp. in a job interview, but also in the workplace itself, the image of getting work done is nearly as important, if not more so, than actually getting the work done. In an interview, the person doing the hiring has 15 minutes to an hour to get to know you and your skills; both those skills which pertain to the job, and to working with co-workers and customers. If you are the best qualified for the position, but don't "fit in" because of the way to act, you won't get the job, and you won't have any recourse. If you are not hired because of how you dress, you may or may not have a discrimination suit available to you, but it is doubtful (unless you are wearing culturally traditional or religious clothing).

I was talking about the second choice. If you are trying to get a job, you need to act educated, and not just be educated. Whether that is morally wrong is not part of this argument, it is simply the way things are in a majority of society.
And in my area, with the rich and powerful still proportionally white, there is a general notion that acting educated is acting "white". It's a turn of a phrase.
I've known a number of black individuals (more so in the younger age group, but it occationally happens throughout) who are activly shunned by the "black" culture of the area because they actually put effort into learning, and try their best to present themselves as resposible and hard working. It is a shame, but it is what I see around me.

 

I'm not rascist but.... (usually followed by something very rascist, but not today).... but I am culturalist.

Why white culture (and to some extent asian culture) has accelerated so far ahead of mud huts and drums to create such refined produce like orchestras, the music written for them and exquisit cuisine is a real mystery. You just have to look at oriental furniture to see a wealth of talents from wood preparation, joining, engraving, decorating etc to see a pyramid of development.

It's not as if blacks have been proven less inteligent yet (mean IQ comparasens would disagree, but the mean black education was lower when this was compared) so perhaps it's down to living conditions. I imagine that in harsh climates a lot more effort has to be made to gather food and reasources whilst in more favourable climates one might have more time to invent and create.

 

I think that certain people are genetically superior or inferior. Some races have more or less of people with good genetics. One thing that I think has created a divide between the white male (or even female) and minorities is Affirmative Action. Affirmative Action makes me want to kick a small animal. Today, white men have to work harder tham minorities for the same thing. Certain conditions permitted white men to accelerate in music, art and other similar things.

We have to face the fact that no whatter what race you are, you will face prejudism, minorities just bitch about it more.

I'm a very politically incorrect persson, but I try to star politically correct on this forum while expressing my politically incorrect opinion.

I think that some races have evolved to be superior. Since globalization has linked all of us together, some races and groups have to play the evolution catch up game. If you look at some white male groups (Particularily in the Southern United States, no offense), there are inbred idiots who live off of welfare. THey are an insult to my race. I'm sure people from other races can say the same, especially people from certain races that are stereotyped as races who cause crime.

Conclusion: Racism is everywhere. Some of it is based on realities that politically correct people ignore. Some people are genetically superior or inferior. these people are found in almost all races. No one can do anything about it.

This was an interesting read: http://sciforums.com/showthread.php?t=34112

While much of it is be biased, it does point out scientific proven facts about brain size and other biological facts that separate two races that seem to clash quite often.

 

Same thing

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Homosexuals are more or less "accentuated" white people.

 

ILikeSalt, I told my self that I would restrain my un-PC tendencies when I came to this place, but having seen some other people's posts I just try to make sure I'm at least not the most offensive person.

What I think has pretty much been said by everyone else.

 

racial prejustice is a pigment of the imagination(pigment is deliberate).
let all try to get along, hard as it might be.

 

River-Wind, that was a very good analogy.

I hate the sub-culture of today, I don't like rap music, rap is only a c-away from "crap" that's my attitude. However I've come to accept it, most of the people I hang out with like this pop-culture, and I've found that by accepting it, I started to like some of the music.

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Though not all kinds of rap music, I'm all about lirycs if I can understand what the hell it's saying and I like it, I can tolerate it. But if it's got a good beat, I defenetly like it.

However I'm older than those around me, 42 I'm mostly into rock and roll.

Here's a joke I've recieved from a "white" friend of mine. Our outlook on life are basically similar:

Illegal Immigrants Poem
>
>
>
>
>I cross ocean,
>poor and broke,
>Take bus,
>see employment folk.
>
>
>Nice man treat me
>good in there,
>Say I need to
>see welfare.
>
>
>
>
>Welfare say,
>"You come no more,
>We send cash
>right to your door."
>
>
>
>Welfare checks,
>they make you wealthy,
>Medicaid it keep
>you healthy!
>
>
>
>By and by,
>I got plenty money,
>Thanks to you,
>American dummy.
>
>
>
>Write to friends
>in motherland,
>Tell them 'come
>fast as you can.'
>
>
>
>They come in turbans
>and Ford trucks,
>I buy big house
>with welfare bucks
>
>
>
>They come here,
>we live together,
>More welfare checks,
>it gets better!
>
>
>
>Fourteen families,
>they moving in,
>But neighbor's patience wearing thin.
>
>
>
>Finally, white guy
>moves away,
>Now I buy his house,
>and then I say,
>
>
>
>"Find more aliens
>for house to rent."
>And in the yard
>I put a tent.
>
>
>
>
>Send for family
>they just trash,
>But they, too,
>draw the welfare cash!
>
>
>
>
>Everything is
>very good,
>And soon we
>own the neighborhood.
>
>ß ß ß ß ß ß
>
>
>We have hobby
>it's called breeding,
>Welfare pay
>for baby feeding.
>
>
>
>Kids need dentist?
>Wife need pills?
>We get free!
>We got no bills!
>
>
>
>
>American crazy!
>He pay all year,
>To keep welfare
>running here.
>
>
>
>
>We think America
>darn good place!
>Too darn good for
>the white man race.
>
>
>ßß
>
>If they no like us,
>they can scram,
>Got lots of room in
>Pakistan.
>
>ß
>
>SEND THIS TO EVERY AMERICAN
>TAXPAYER YOU KNOW

Yea!!! I hate welfare.

Godless.

 

"Grass is always greener on the other side" comes to mind. Every division among men is going to be the brunt of some racism or another.

With black athletes and such, I wasn't sure if it was necessarily they are physically 'superior', but perhaps have more motivation and drive to succeed then their counterparts?

 

As an African-American myself I must say that I agree. Alotta Blacks grow up in poverty and they use Sports as a means of getting out of the "Ghetto" ever see a NBA player from Beverly Hills? That being said however there are plenty of differences between blacks and whites....not differences that mean we cant get along but over 400 years of subvert and covert slavery on a population of people cant have anything but a negative effect on the "phsyci"(sp?) of a race....peace

 

I hate it when black people say that they should have affirmative action because they were subjected to slavery. If white people didn't bring you over to North America, then you would be starving in Africa while dying of AIDS. (It's crude but it's the premise of a comedy sketch that I'm writing).

"We live in poverty" Go to college and get a good job. It's easier for you to get in.

I hate it when minorities complain about poverty. How about they break the cycle of poverty? Oh, the last time I checked, being poor and listening to rap music was cool. So, I guess minorities will never break the poverty struggle.

 

Thanks for the support Godless, but I have to seriously disagree with the vitrole against welfare. Many people seem to see it as a way to get free money, and it is. It can be abused. It needs to be cleaned up. However, if you ever try living on welfare yourself, you will find that it is far from convienient.

It provides significantly less than a living income. Medicade only pays part of medical bills, and many claims are rejected as a basic rule, as opposed to a per-claim reason.
Surviving on welfare, and even trying to get *on* welfare as a non-citizen on an immegrant citizen is extremely dificult.

I have worked alot with welfare reciptients, and I'd say a good 40% abuse the system. However, those not abusing the system live a seriously limited life - from not having enough heat in the winter to having enough food on the table to not qualify as malnurised, to not having running water all the time (trying to get a job w/o a shower to clean up in or wash your clothes in makes getting or keeping a job very difficult).

I have seen welfare turn down a single mother of two with a digenerative liver condition caused by the reciept of tainted blood during the treatment of anemia, while aproving a single man with jail history and a known current drug problem. The paperwork is quite difficult, and the state-employed assitants are underpaid and over-worked. Much of the time, they only put up with the job because they can't get a better job; they are pitifully underqualified.

Back to the topic, much of the time, people on welfare *are* African Americans; but do you realize that slavery was abolished in the US in 1865? That seems like a long time ago, huh? Well, it's only 139 years ago. I have curb-side trees in my neighborhood older than that. We are only in the ~6 generation out of slavery! We are only in the third generation out of legal segregation in this country!
There are still alot of people alive today in the Philly area who had no real feeling of protection from the police back in the 40's, 50's and 60's; people who were forced to sit at the back of the bus (which seem trivial until you look at the design of buses at the time - the money was taken in the middle. Whites were trusted to pay on their way off the bus by exiting through the back. By forcing blacks to sit in the back, they were being required to pay first; not being trusted to pay honestly at the end of the trip).
Given this, it is not surprising that an inordinant percentage of people in poverty are blacks. Oportunity is not as easy for people who grandfathers were beaten, hated, and sidelined for decades; even if the party line is "we are all equal."
These things take time and hard work.

Quick analogy - I got into a fight with someone yesterday who was parked in a handicapped spot. They were not handicapped, nor did they have plates or a placcard. They came out of my office building and I asked them to not park there, out of respect for those how have difficulty walking long distances.
The response I got was "I was only inside for a minute. Besides, they always get to park near the door."
My response was simply "And you always get to use your legs."
Yes, the hadicapped are getting preferential treatment; because they have daily difficulties in life that you and I do not!

So maybe welfare takes money out of the pockets of people who earn their money - it is designed to help those in dire straits, and aren't able to earn money themselves. *Aren't* able - those who *can't*; it is supposed to take money from those who *can* , and gives it to those who *can't*. We need to clean up the system so that it can work with the money it already has - to help those families who are unable to earn a wage which can feed them and their families.
Outright anger towars the system itself, without figuring out specific ways to fix it, will only serve to hurt people in dire situations. And given certain sets of circumstances, dire situations which we could all one day find ourselves.

 

Its crude and wrong. The epidemics and poverty currently suffered in Africa are not due to African actions, but to european polocies enforced for hundreds of years there. Those living in Etheopia would be living in a vibrant jungle, as they had for thousands of years, if it had not been for the mass food production systems set up the the Romans after enslaving the populace. The area was heavily overfarmed; nutirent depletion and erosion allowed the encrochment of the Sahara at rates bever seen before in that area. Now, that entire area is desert, farmless. The giant farms and ports are now archeological sites, and nothing more. Because of the beginings of the same ideology and buisness which brought Africans over to the US in the first place - slavery and international slave trade.

Please spend time trying to assist a young man or woman who is living in poverty and is trying to get into college.
Help them get a suit, help them learn how to act in an interview, and how to write an application letter. Help them gain transportation to the school, and help them to get a full scholorship, or even better, just try and help them get student loans.
See my 'handicapped space' story above. They need what you see as 'extra' help because they do not recieve the same quality of life that you have enjoyed. You learned in school how to write effectively. More often then not, that topic is not fully covered in the poorest neighborhoods. The teachers are, by design, subpar in their own education, and value as educators. If local property taxes are used to determine the amount of money a public school gets, then the good teachers will teach in rich areas, where they earn more. Bad teachers will take anything they can get, and that is in the poor areas.

sadly, you have a point here. Kids growing up in poverty are hounded by mass-media images of extremes - either being poor, and not caring, or becoming super-wealthy through sports or music.
Neither help those kids form a constructive plan of *how* to get out of poverty. Only a very few will see millions from sports or music, but a majority try. That means that a majority fail, and have no marketable skills to fall back on, because their schools failed to teach them those skills, and they were not driven by their families/friends/culture to learn on their own.
We need to market the idea of hard work, and compromised, stable living to children growing up in poverty - give them a realistic plan to break out of poverty.
And we need help. If you are pissed at minorities complaining about poverty, then help them. they'll stop complaining if they are no longer living in squallid conditions.

 

that's one of the most simple minded comments i've heard. i just dont understand how people can be so close minded. there's always more than 2 sides to a story and you'd really have to be omnipotent to understand everything in order to fairly access the situation.

so since you aren't omnipotent the best you can do is try to understand what possible outcomes could have occurred from various changes in history.

lets take a simple example, if Africans hadn't been taken to North America, then either South America would have had a larger slave population or slave trade wouldn't have occurred and Africa would have been allowed to continue their progress without interference. so now we have two possible outcomes. if slavery increased in South America then its possible that the increase in numbers could have led to abolishment in maybe the mid-18th century instead of mid-19th century. well, where would North American colonies have been then especially considering there were no slaves to use as labor. they would have either grown much slower economically than our history or might have increased indentured servitude or mass immigration from Europe. then Europe's population would have been drained anywhere from 230,000 to 4 million people (roughly the amount of slaves beginning in 1810 to the 1860s). now we have to take into account European development without those people and there are still the other possibilities to consider like what if Africans hadn't been taken from Africa. would that mean Europe wouldn't have imperialistic goals so they wouldn't have interfered with Asian countries?

well now you can see my point that you cannot just say something as simple as “If white people didn't bring you over to North America, then you would be starving in Africa while dying of AIDS” without having all the knowledge (omnipotence) to back it up.

 

and i'd like to add that just reading river-wind's post increases the amount of information i had on the situtation and allows me to modify my "simple example"

 

River Wind, you are telling me to help these people. They do have help if they want it. They can stop by an employment office and they will help out anyone who needs a resume, show them where to get proper apparel, show them how to get to college, how to do cover letters and such. They can go to a library to get information off of the internet on how to get a job. School councillors are always willing to help out and direct th epath of misguided people. The problem is that the person who wants to take advantage of all this help needs to take the initiative.

When I posted the following:
"I hate it when black people say that they should have affirmative action because they were subjected to slavery. If white people didn't bring you over to North America, then you would be starving in Africa while dying of AIDS. (It's crude but it's the premise of a comedy sketch that I'm writing)."

It wasn't supposed to be taken in a literal sense. I made it really obvious that it wasn't entirely literal. What I was trying to say is that they dwell on the past and use it as an excuse for lack of education and poverty.

As for helping them, I do help them by paying taxes. Especially where I live (in Canada), a large chink of my taxes go toward welfare funds where people get money and don't have to work for it. I am a decent person who is working to pay for my education so that I can have a decent job in the future. Since I am white, I have to work harder to go to University than minorities due to affirmative action. I also have to pay more to go to school than they do. That's Ok, because Affirmative Action hasn't stopped me from doing what I want.

river-wind:

You said that slavery was stoppped 6 generations ago. That's plenty of time to rise to higher standards.

In the 1950s, women here refused higher education. My grandmother only got to grade 8 because she was forced to work and women were refused high school education. Is that an excuse for me to not succeed? No. I am going on to higher education.

I will even go to higher education when I have to get 75% + (I got even higher) on my report card while minorities in my school only need about 65% +. The problem is that most of them don't take advantage of that! How much more help do they need? I got that average with studying only a few hours a month. Even if you aren't that bright, you can study a couple hours a day and WORK.

I believe that anyone who wants help to get a decent job and break out of poverty needs to work for it. The help is there if you want. In conclusion, instead of complaining about poverty, go out, get a job, get as much help as you need and live a good life. You can only get help if you help yourself.