Oniw17: When we farm animals for meat, we need to feed those animals. We don't feed them the vegetable food we grow for human consumption, but separate feed grown especially for the animals. Therefore, with animal farming, a farmer might have 3 fields: one field to grow vegetables for humans, one to grow animal feed, and one to house animals. If everybody was vegetarian, all three could be used to grow vegetarian food for humans instead, thus reducing overall land usage.
TW Scott: Funny how you choose to jump into this conversation. I guess you're pretending our previous extensive converation never happened. Right? How dishonest of you. You know my reasons. I already explained them to you, in detail. Your pretence that you've forgotten all that is dishonest. If Carcasm wants to ask questions, I am happy to answer them. But I've already dealt with you. Go play somewhere else.
Vegetarians are 'superhuman', thats why they look down on others. That's ok with me, i'm just an animal. I have the animal right to hunt, kill and eat meat. Nature is so wonderfully violent isn't it Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
A converstation is give and take and the exchange of ideas. You are so thuroughly entrenched in your belief that you will not budge even a milimeter. Thus no has a conversation with you, they are simply trying rationalize with a rant. I have forgotten nothing. You have offered nothing but your opinions, belief and feeling. Not verifiable hard facts that supports your claims. Of course I do understand it is extremely hard to find said facts.
Do you understand how big a hog is? 300 to 400 pounds. Now after processing that is about 200 to 300 pounds of meat if you had typical servings that is 70 to 100 days of high quality protein for one person. All on the parts of food we throw away normally.
Oh, I understood what you were saying and my description of them is accurate. Preference and aesthetics does not equate to ethics.
a 7 or 8 year old hog maybe. then of course you have 2500 days worth of food that could haev been consumed by us.
I guess the main problem with our debate is that you are debating ethics, while I am focusing on more of a biological argument, and am proudly declaring my anthropocentic mindset. Yes, using animal products causes unnecessary suffering and no one has a good ethical argument against that. Know why? Because nature is ugly. Its a nasty bitch. When our survival and success as the human race is at stake, I don't care much about morals. The benefits of raping and murdering someone illegitimately does not benefit either person, and they are senseless acts because the sacrifice in no way compares to the benefit. Utilizing animal products, on the other hand, is essential for human survival, according to my arguments. All I am talking about is essential benefits. Surely you know I wasn't proposing that any act beneficial for anyone is moral. My argument is that using animal products is essential to the human race as we know it. You're right, vegans aren't dying everywhere you turn. I think animal products are a big reason why humans are successful, and I don't think we should give that up. Thats all. We invented the idea of morals, but something bigger invented the idea of survival. I never said eating meat was nice. It takes A LOT of effort to be a true vegan. Do the vegans you know actually deny so? Sure I have. But not mentioning nuts, vegetables, and grains doesn't detract from my point that all you have left is stuff that grows in the ground and takes up space. Really? I'm interested in hearing more. Where are yours?
I eat meat but in a way it seems like 'farming' animals, in a way, seems wrong, in that they are kept in cages and are then executed.
you gotta be kidding me. I can get thet one that big in a year, maybe less, and not resort to hormones. Plus honestly that pig eats foods that we already produce an abundance of and we could not survive on his diet. So for 3.5 days of a carbohydrate heavy diet that would be hard on my suystem I get 1 day of meat to add to my diet and make me healthier. Fair trade.
Carcasm: Your survival doesn't depend on you eating meat. Therefore, the ethical argument trumps any "biological need" argument you might raise. You don't need to eat meat. You just choose to eat it, because it is easy and you like it. Perhaps we need to separate the discussion, then. This thread is titled "I eat meat", and I thought we were talking about eating meat. The more general question about "utilizing animal products" is much less easily defined. Eating meat is not essential to human survival. Do you agree? If so, we can move on. If something is not nice and also unnecessary, then there is a moral imperative to avoid doing it, is there not? I agree that it takes more effort than eating meat, given the current way our society is structured to revolve around eating meat. Sometimes it is harder to do what is ethically right than to take the easy option. If you were really interested, you would have read my post on this matter just a little further up the page.
it may take a lot of effort for meat eaters who dicide to turn vegan. but thats because almost of our processed foods contain animal products. for me it becomes instinct to pick up a food item, skim along until i find an animal product such as 'e496' and just put it down without thinking about it. for someone without that trained response they will continue to think about how much they want whatever it is and actually weigh this up against their morals. quitting meat is just like quitting a drug... it takes a long period of effort before you can go without it and not blink.
That's because we're smart enough to kill diseases and bacteria in the meat. And we're high class about our food. I put salad dressing and bacon bits on my salad, and wash it thoroughly... am I no longer a veggie-eater? We're not dogs, okay? Kill Mad Cow Disease and Bird Flu.
I'm vegetarian but I don't consider eating meat evil. I have a very big problem with industries that use and abuse animals (by the billions). If a vegearian considers themselves 'better' than a meat eater, then it's probably because the vegetarian is actively trying to put a stop to these industries, where as a meat eater is supporting them.
If everyone was a vegetarian/vegan what would happen to all the farm animals? Is it better for pigs, cows, and chickens to be extinct than eaten? Wouldn't they be eaten even if there were no humans and they were never domesticated? Surely it would be better for the animals to attempt to improve conditions on farms rather than to stop eating meat. A vegetarian is basically promoting the genecide of farm animals. If you're vegetarian for health reasons or even simple personal preference, that's one thing. But don't try to claim the the moral high ground.
The meat industry commits genocide, your argument is back to front. Farmers don't keep pigs and chickens because they like having them around, they just exploit them because the public seems to like eating their meat. The best we can hope for is conditions for farm animals drastically improve, see compassion in world farming.
