I don't believe there is a god vs I believe there is no god

Discussion in 'General Philosophy' started by Mind Over Matter, Aug 29, 2011.

  1. Mind Over Matter Registered Senior Member

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    Is there a philosophical distinction between the statements, "I don't believe there is a god" and "I believe there is no god"???

    I think in order to be a "real" atheist, one must be positively certain there is no god, but this is not the case. I suspect most self-identified atheists would admit that they have no certain knowledge one way or the other.
     
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  3. Dywyddyr Penguinaciously duckalicious. Valued Senior Member

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    Already done:
    http://www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?t=106976

    Why do you think this? Why do think your definition is better than the actual one?

    Duh.
     
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  5. Jan Ardena Valued Senior Member

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    Not really, but there can be.
    The former appears to express a sort of neutral position, but that only lasts until the reason for the statement is revealed. Then we understand the focus of actual belief. Either way a ''belief'' is there.

    jan.
     
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  7. Dywyddyr Penguinaciously duckalicious. Valued Senior Member

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    Incorrect.
     
  8. Jan Ardena Valued Senior Member

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    How so?


    jan.
     
  9. Dywyddyr Penguinaciously duckalicious. Valued Senior Member

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    "I do not believe" is NOT a belief.
    It's quite simple.

    Your claim that a belief is involved is unsubstantiated.
     
  10. Jan Ardena Valued Senior Member

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    I don't think it's possible to not physically believe something without believing the reason why you don't believe.

    The only other excuse is ignorance. Then ''non-belief'' is nothing
    but an expession of ''i don't know anything about the subject''.

    jan.
     
  11. Dywyddyr Penguinaciously duckalicious. Valued Senior Member

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    Personal incredulity is not a valid argument.
    And you're still claiming a belief is involved in non-belief.
    Fail.

    Also wrong.

    Your very large blind spot is showing. But that's typical of you.
     
  12. Mind Over Matter Registered Senior Member

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    Because I don't think there are many atheists on this forum if by "atheist" you mean a "nihilist" who thinks that the metaphysical nature of existence logically and necessarily precludes the existence of what we call God in all respects.

    I think there are a number of agnostics on this forum, people who claim that the limited knowledge we have does not allow us to make the legitimate or rational claim that God exists. The optimistic atheism of today is largely epistemological in nature and principle. These people mostly believe that being an atheist is an epistemological principle of rational and scientific thought, and they often shun metaphysics knowing that it undermines their position.
     
  13. Jan Ardena Valued Senior Member

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    Dywyddyr,

    What do you mean by this?




    Seeing as we're in a discussion, an explanation would be nice.

    thanks in advance
    jan.
     
  14. Dywyddyr Penguinaciously duckalicious. Valued Senior Member

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    Wow! You're using your own definitions.
    Atheist = someone who doesn't believe in the existence of god. Full stop.

    Go away and learn the difference between atheist and agnostic.
    It's possible to be an agnostic atheist or an agnostic theist.
     
  15. Dywyddyr Penguinaciously duckalicious. Valued Senior Member

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    You're making the same claim I previously said was unsubstantiated, again without support.
    Lack of belief is not a belief.

    Explanation of what?
    You make (again) an unsubstantiated claim and when I say "wrong" (with exactly as much justification as you provided) I'm expected to explain?
    Get real.
    Either support your arguments or stop querying mine. And stop making unfounded assumptions.
     
  16. Jan Ardena Valued Senior Member

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    12,112

    I don't see what is wrong with postulating belief of something, resulting in in a lack of belief, or disbelief in something else.

    jan.
     
  17. Dywyddyr Penguinaciously duckalicious. Valued Senior Member

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    You weren't postulating you were declaring.
    And you have already been informed (and not just in this thread) that lack of belief is NOT a belief.

    Your blind spot:
    is over-riding any chance of rationality.
    You're so wrapped up in your own belief that simply can't see how someone can not believe.
    It's YOUR failing.
     
  18. Jan Ardena Valued Senior Member

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    Dywyddyr,


    Whatever.



    I didn't say it was.
    I think it is possible to believe something that leads to a lack of belief in something else.
    If you don't think so, state why.


    It's YOUR failing.[/QUOTE]

    What belief would that be?

    jan.
     
  19. Dywyddyr Penguinaciously duckalicious. Valued Senior Member

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    False:
    Beside the point. Atheism is a lack of belief in god. No belief in something else required.

    Could be any. The simple fact is that you holding a belief appears to preclude (for you) the possibility that others simply don't. And therefore you seem to feel a need to assign a belief to them.
     
  20. Jan Ardena Valued Senior Member

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    12,112
    Dywyddyr,

    So why do you lack belief in God?

    jan.
     
  21. cosmictraveler Be kind to yourself always. Valued Senior Member

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    I'll just state that there is no such supernatural being that exists but rather myths and delusions that many people have claiming that one does exist.
     
  22. Dywyddyr Penguinaciously duckalicious. Valued Senior Member

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    No, a more relevant question is why do you believe in god?
    Something must have convinced you he exists. On the other hand I've seen/ heard/ read nothing that shows he does exist.
     
  23. Jan Ardena Valued Senior Member

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    12,112
    Dywyddyr,



    So why should you lack belief in God?


    jan.
     

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