I Can't Hate My Wife.

Discussion in 'Religion' started by Slartibartfast, Aug 7, 2018.

  1. Capracus Valued Senior Member

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    Being compared to a genius is usually considered a compliment, and I thought Doc Toad would see it as a fitting demonstration of respect for the imagined reputation of Siddhartha Gautama.
     
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  3. Yazata Valued Senior Member

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    I'm inclined to read that as hyperbole. I see it as basically saying that if your life revolves around worldly things, even the worldly things that you most love, you will never comprehend transcendent things.
     
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  5. Capracus Valued Senior Member

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    I apologize, I misquoted Tump's genius statement, he actually only claimed to be like really smart in this instance. But in my own defense, hid did later claim to be a stable genius.
    In the sense that God is the representation of the transcendent, you're probably right, and I've read that a Greek translation of hate means to love less, so the general idea is to place the needs of God above all others. The problems that arise from this mindset are that a subjective interpretation of God's needs can lead to unnecessary sacrifice of worldly needs, such as some basic needs of life and logic.
     
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  7. Dr_Toad It's green! Valued Senior Member

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    I think that point is held by those on the right as well as the left. If the puffery and twittish tweets trickled away he might be percieved in a better way. I doubt it, though. He watched too much TV or something...
     
  8. Slartibartfast Registered Member

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    I think it's what your god is demanding is what you are finding hard to understand.
     
  9. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Staff Member

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    I think your problem is that you just don't know what you're on about:

    To the one, it's understandable. To the other, it's understandable because it must sound terrible to the ignorant. To the beeblebrox, hey, another "not a disciple of christ" complaining about something he clearly doesn't understand. If there is supposed to be something new about that, I'm just not seeing it.
     
  10. Slartibartfast Registered Member

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    It's just a matter of understanding the meaning of words and reading them, the poor believers who need to turn themselves into inside out pretzels in order to believe the words don't say what they say, I can only pity them. Why don't you supply some contradictory statements from your god to prove that everything he says is true. Oh deary, deary, deary me.
     
  11. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Staff Member

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    Oh, cut the pomposity. Nobody knows what to tell you because you have yet to formulate a coherent complaint. If you have an actual argument, you should try presenting it. Uneducated attitude problem, though, is ... uh ... seriously, like I said, if there is supposed to be something new about your pitch, it's just not showing through.

    Such as it is, we're on page three of the thread and if anyone still cares what you're on about the question remains as it was at the outset: Where is this going? And no, the pointless blithering doesn't really help.

    This one is really simple: If you're not willing to put Christian duty before your wife, brother, mom, son, &c., then no, you're not going to Heaven.

    Nor is it particularly obscure: If you choose to put family before law, say, helping your brother get away after a bank robbery instead of turning him in to police, you get charged with aiding and abetting.

    Not liking the prospect is hardly original.

    That you cannot figure it out for yourself is ... er ... ah ... okay, fine, we can believe that. Seen it enough. Whatever.
     
  12. Slartibartfast Registered Member

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    Why should I have a complaint? Pointing out the clearly obvious to those too afraid to see it is a public service, there is certainly nothing new about my pitch and nothing new concerning your lies (apologetics) in a vain attempt to rewrite your bible.

    I know but from what I've seen, pointless blithering seems to be all you have. That's understandable given the nonsense you are forced to defend.

    It is quite simple and you have completely misconstrued what the passage says (deliberately). The passage orders you to HATE your family or you won't be a disciple of christ. The word used is HATE, do you understand the meaning of that word?

    Pathetic non-analogous analogies seem de rigueur for believers struggling to defend the obscenities in their beliefs. Please don't stoop to that again.

    Precisely apologetics is a subject designed purely to rewrite the contradictions, absurdities and obscenities contained in your bible and are quite obviously a failure when examined by the thinking person.

    Figuring it out takes reading the passage not lying about what it says.
     
  13. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Staff Member

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    How about, no. Why should you have a complaint? Quite frankly, that is just plain stupid. Read your topic post; you're complaining about religion.

    Well, you should probably come up with something better. Just making it up as you go is fantasy play.

    In this case my advice is to ask Jesus, which is easy enough to do since He has already told us what He means:

    "If any one comes to me and does not hate his own father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sisters, yes, and even his own life, he cannot be my disciple. Whoever does not bear his own cross and come after me, cannot be my disciple. For which of you, desiring to build a tower, does not first sit down and count the cost, whether he has enough to complete it? Otherwise, when he has laid a foundation, and is not able to finish, all who see it begin to mock him, saying, 'This man began to build, and was not able to finish.' Or what king, going to encounter another king in war, will not sit down first and take counsel whether he is able with ten thousand to meet him who comes against him with twenty thousand? And if not, while the other is yet a great way off, he sends an embassy and asks terms of peace. So therefore, whoever of you does not renounce all that he has cannot be my disciple."

    (Luke 14.26-33↱, RSV)

    No wonder you needed a separate thread↗ in which you could try to make your demand without having to see the rest of the text; your answer, thus far is already on record. That is, if we wish to know what Jesus means in Luke 14.26, by he word "μισέω", we can read verses 27-33.

    Meanwhile, consider the prospect of one who claims to not be of the faith wandering in and making the same ignorant complaint as how many before him, and if you can't figure out what Jesus is saying on this occasion, it's probably best that you're happy to not be a Christian. Meanwhile,though, let us consider Luke 14.27-33 directly:

    "Whoever does not bear his own cross and come after me, cannot be my disciple. For which of you, desiring to build a tower, does not first sit down and count the cost, whether he has enough to complete it? Otherwise, when he has laid a foundation, and is not able to finish, all who see it begin to mock him, saying, 'This man began to build, and was not able to finish.' Or what king, going to encounter another king in war, will not sit down first and take counsel whether he is able with ten thousand to meet him who comes against him with twenty thousand? And if not, while the other is yet a great way off, he sends an embassy and asks terms of peace. So therefore, whoever of you does not renounce all that he has cannot be my disciple."

    Now, then, what is your objection? Let us cover a base, here: The part where your objection is 14.25 sits aside for the moment, because if you complain about the word "hate", I'll ask what it means and then you'll remind me that's your question, and again I'll point back to 27-33. So let us look at that portion of the text. What about it do you object to? Try it this way: You have, as Christ puts it, counted the cost and apparently decided to not build the tower. Still, though, what objection do you have to the principle that if you decide to build the tower you should do it right? Consider the idea that the tower might collapse: Did it fall down because you built it wrong in order to accommodate your wife and spoil the kids, building luxurious rooms not bothered by annoying things like proper structural support? It's one thing to want a big home, but if they also want you to get rid of those posts because they're ugly? Well, can you not comprehend that setting aside the sentiment of wanting to please them might be the better thing to do in such circumstances? If you cannot renounce all of that long enough to build the tower safely, maybe your wife will huff that you don't love her enough, and your kids will flounce around about how much you hate them, and then you can roll your eyes and mutter, as you walk out of the room, "Jesus Fucking Christ!" But, hey, if the tower falls down, at least you didn't guarantee its destruction in order to please your wife.

    Pretending you're stupid in order to complain about something really is stupid.

    Cowardly flight in order to reinforce the character you're playing as some manner of hubristic ignoramus is your own decision, but please do learn to read.

    You don't even know what you just said.

    And we just read the passage, and it turns out you're wrong. Like I said, no wonder you needed another thread, because it really was a genuinely stupid sleight you attempted.

    Think of it this way: Three posts in a row have you failed. Are you able to not fail?
    ____________________

    Notes:

    Weigle, Luther, et al. The Bible: Revised Standard Version. New York: Thomas Nelson, 1971. University of Michigan. 6 August 2018. http://bit.ly/2rJddky
     
  14. Slartibartfast Registered Member

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    That was a lovely post dedicated to avoiding any discussion of the passage under discussion. You may go now.
     
  15. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Staff Member

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    I know.

    Thank you. (You don't get it, do you?)
     
  16. Stephen H Banned Banned

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    Hate? The original Greek word is miseo, meaning ; to love less. So in my opinion, the the Christ was saying that anyone following him, making a commitment to the Christian way of life, must 'love him more' than family and friends, and even life itself. But then again The Christ also said, " “Greater love has no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends. I have called you friends”
     
  17. Slartibartfast Registered Member

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    This is the passage under discussion
    If you have something else you want to discuss may I suggest you start a thread.
     
  18. Capracus Valued Senior Member

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    In case you haven't noticed, Stephen H will have to start another thread at another website.
     
  19. Slartibartfast Registered Member

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    Thank you, I hadn't noticed actually.
     
  20. StrangerInAStrangeLand SubQuantum Mechanic Valued Senior Member

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    ///
    Misanthropy is the general hatred, dislike, distrust or contempt of the human species or human nature.

    The Greek root meant hating man & initially had very similar meaning in English. Somehow it came to more mean dislike & distrust. Later contempt was included then it turned back to include hatred again.
    There is nothing in the definition on whether it is reasonable yet it seems to be assumed in the attitude of those who refer to someone as a misanthrope.

    <>
     
  21. StrangerInAStrangeLand SubQuantum Mechanic Valued Senior Member

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    I cannot hate anyone. Dislike, distrust & hatred of some beliefs, attitudes & actions are something else.
    When I was a child, they tried to teach me to hate people but I just could not do it. They thought something was wrong with me.

    <>
     

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