# I am new to bitcoin and need some advice.

Discussion in 'Intelligence & Machines' started by aaqucnaona, Sep 28, 2013.

1. ### StryderKeeper of "good" ideas.Valued Senior Member

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MtGox is apparently closed at the moment after a number of resignations, losses from attacks and suggestion of laundering. I hope if any of you had coins, you got them out of there before it was shut.

3. ### Captain KremmenAll aboard, me Hearties!Valued Senior Member

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I am new to bitcoin and need some advice.

5. ### exchemistValued Senior Member

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As I said in post no. 5:

I'd leave it alone or risk losing your shirt. Do you think Warren Buffet would have anything to do with bitcoin? No, nor do I.

Q.E.D.

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8. ### Captain KremmenAll aboard, me Hearties!Valued Senior Member

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Any bitcoins remaining should be spread among those owning the bitcoins, not to other creditors.

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Me neither.

10. ### Captain KremmenAll aboard, me Hearties!Valued Senior Member

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Mt Gox now filing for bankruptcy.
Bitcoin still over $500. Why??? 11. ### Billy TUse Sugar Cane Alcohol car FuelValued Senior Member Messages: 23,198 Barnum, of the circus fame, answered that: "There is a fool born every minute." 12. ### elteValued Senior Member Messages: 1,253 Something that starts low in value and goes up in price mostly because of popularity is something to stay away from. 13. ### Captain KremmenAll aboard, me Hearties!Valued Senior Member Messages: 12,738 Fools are too optimistic, but when a catastrophe occurs they usually take the headless chicken role. They will now be panic selling. Why hasn't the value gone down to$50 or so?
Someone, or something, is supporting its value.

14. ### KittamaruNever cruel nor cowardly...Staff Member

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Not at all - it's something to jump on EARLY and then sell before it pops

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Actually, his exact word was "sucker", not fool. But that's close enough.

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Yes. Thanks.

17. ### StryderKeeper of "good" ideas.Valued Senior Member

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How can a currency maintain not just value but climb when it's been proven that countless millions of that currency have been embezzled or laundered? In real world economics that's what causes a slump or austerity during a clean up, this either means that people are clinging to branches or finding new ways to maintain their laundering, embezzlement and tax evasion. Clean all the criminals out and put in a centralised reserve and you'll find the price drop to "Normal". (I would also take a good look at the sales of energy shares, since that's where people will hedge bet if bitcoin is here to stay)

18. ### Captain KremmenAll aboard, me Hearties!Valued Senior Member

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Criminals.
Yes, that could be the factor that is propping it up.
It should have lost at least 90% of its value.

I was thinking that perhaps some big player had bought into it,
but your suggestion is a good one.

19. ### SyzygysAs a mother, I am telling youValued Senior Member

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If gmail goes down and google out of business, will email die too? Of course not...

It is called demand. There are way too much money looking for investment opportunities than opportunities themselves. Also people remember the big runup and they don't want to be left out of the next one.

Now in the long run eventually price will come down, but just because one exchange/bank/whatever fails that doesn't mean the end of the experience...

20. ### SyzygysAs a mother, I am telling youValued Senior Member

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Why would be the 2 related? Did people abandon cash after the Madoff scandal? Of course not. It isn't that complicated, I am surprised you don't get it. Now I am critical of bitcoin, but I understand the underlying forces.

Even in the stock market, when there are way too much cash chasing few good companies, then even the shitty companies value will raise, because money needs to go somewhere, it doesn't like to be sitting uninvested. The whole 1990s runup was such buying frenzy, completely ridiculous companies got billion dollar evaluation. Eventually economical rules and laws will be followed, but for a relative short term price can be kept up at unrealistic levels...

Hell, why is Amazon's stock price is over \$200? The company never made real money in 10 or so years...

21. ### Captain KremmenAll aboard, me Hearties!Valued Senior Member

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@Syzgyz
I don't disagree with any of what you've said.
In general.
But it doesn't apply to Bitcoin.
It is a classic bubble, and it should have popped.

22. ### Billy TUse Sugar Cane Alcohol car FuelValued Senior Member

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OK, Perhaps you will answer my question: From buyer's POV in a typical store, why is bitcoin better than check or even cash?

I'd much rather be long (speculating) in gold than bitcoin, and as so few stores even know how to accept a bitcoin, speculation is its main use. My gold is in GLD's London vault, un allocated so I can sell one or more shares of my interest in it via the ETF in seconds for cash at my broker, and write a check on it. (GLD trades on five different stock exchanges around the world and is by far the largest that actually holds standard (LGD) gold bars.) The ETF has huge daily trading volume and the share price never differ much from the then current price of 0.1 ounces of gold.

I will never do that, as plan to die still holding all the shares so my heirs get the value of them on the day I die - as a greatly stepped up cost basis rather than my much lower cost basis, under long standing IRS rules. Much less capital gain tax to pay, even if they sell next market day after my death. The best part about dying this way is finally your get to screw the IRS. This law is not likely to change, as face facts - the rich control the Congress. I.e. US has government "Of the rich, by their lobbyists, and for their corporations." - The very best government money can buy!

Last edited by a moderator: Mar 2, 2014
23. ### CrisIn search of ImmortalityValued Senior Member

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Billy,

You are right, for many simple situations at the moment Bitcoin may not appear to be of any advantage. But then why do people make phone calls using cell phones when an AT&T land-line works just as well?

From the bigger picture - Bitcoin or some form of crypto-currency provides a very low cost geographically independent, anonymous, global peer to peer real-time payment system without the involvement of banks or governments.

The implications, impact, scope, and benefits, are colossal. As most I hope can see for themselves, at least those of us who perhaps haven't written a check in the past 10 years.

Bitcoin has the real potential to do to the finance and banking industry what email has done to snail-mail traffic, or the internet has done to the newspaper and book publishing industry, or what Google has done to the sale of 30 volume hardback editions of the Encyclopedia Britannica.

The global internet phenomena screams for the equivalent in a true real-time payment companion. The massive discordance of political systems around the world are not likely to implement something like this on their own - they will need to be forced to do so and there is no force on earth as powerful as a global popular uprising - we see that in social media already to a large extent. The meme of Bitcoin will work its way around the world, as it has been doing for some time now, and will inevitably gain an increasingly firm foothold through popular usage by individuals. The biggest savings will be for merchants who stand to gain significantly from discarding card payment systems - their widespread adoption with some enticements in the form of lower prices or discounts should convince more consumers to come on board. It will be a rocky road and very bumpy in parts of the world, but I am convinced something like this, if not Bitcoin, is entirely inevitable in the near future if not now.