I am considering brainwashing to fix my son: religious experiment.

You are absolutely 100% correct. Unfortunately, neither one of us can provide this. That is only reason we have him on medication is because we can't be there 100% of the time. It's so other people who haven't a clue, can manage him a little easier.

 

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Saying that you believe in something that you don't believe in IS lying.

 

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John99, I'm sorry to dismiss your advice, but it is not on the level. Everything you are saying has been considered two or three years ago by all parties involved. I could have maybe used it then, but it's just out of date is all.

But, seriously, thanks.

 

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Something you can also do that may help is to cut back on sugar, junk food and meat, and instead go for a diet based on vegetables. Experiments show that high sugar intake and junk food make people more aggressive and irritable. Of course, ideally, the whole family should change their diet this way, this way, it will be easier to be consistent.

Another thing to try is team sports, with his peers, as some other posters have suggested.

 

that's true. but exposing him to a philosophy that he sees beneficial, is not the same thing as pretending to believe in god. it would be the same as him exposing the child to a particular psychology that he doesn't necessarily know to be true, but might be beneficial.

i waffled when it came to the religion suggestion. i don't really think religion is the answer for anyone. but i wasn't waffling when i suggested that he prayed about it.

 

I wouldn't be lying to anyone who believes, but I would be lying to myself. I'll check back in a couple months if I start the experiment.

 

cause your reading more into it than is there..

 

I don't think a child can be fooled like that, especially not the types with a psychiatric diagnosis.
What could happen is that your son would accept the beliefs you are trying to sell him, but along with your emotional ambiguity about the belief.
Which doesn't really help.

Another idea is to change the environment - move to the country side, or to another country. This may be difficult, but there are people for whom and whose children this has worked well.

 

I think most kids can tell if you're being on the level with them. Then again, what do I know? My wife and I were never able to have kids, so it's all theory to me.

May the force be with you.

 

They say a tree with strong roots can withstand a harsh storm, but a tree can scarcely hope to grow them once the storm is already on the horizon.

In other words, turning to God for help when things are already seriously out of control is late. It is no surprise that things are difficult if one turns to God only when life is already seriously breathing down one's neck - because one has so much catching up to do.

 

thank you for that..there are some users here on this forum that admit that they do not have kids yet they still act like they are experts on raising kids..

 

Well, we may see if you are right. But, this behavior cannot continue. He tried to stab a child today with scissors because the child had tattled on him. My son was cutting his socks with his scissors. He's never gone that far.

 

lol yes it so annoyingly obvious it is funny too.

 

Sounds more like expectations were so low that anything positive he does is going to look like a genius. The main thing is that he made it through.

 

Not really. People with children learn as they go along because there is no child rearing school.

 

Jayleew,

Exactly, it's you and your wife who can make the changes happen. The trick is to get your son onboard. Nobody can do for your son what you can. Not god, a preacher/teacher, therapist. Some may be able to help, especially help you and your wife but he is relying on you to help him.

Look at your situation like the dog whisperer. He isn't trying to teach the dog, he is teaching the parents how to work with the dog. You and your wife have to learn to be the best trainer/teacher for your son and to recognize where he is at a particular moment. You have to become the experts in dealing with ODD children.

Ultra's story of the nephew is right in line with what I have experienced and what worked best.

In my example, I want to be clear that I am not advocating kicking you son out, I assume that you can see the difference between a team situation and your family. You don't kick your kids to the curb.

Set boundaries, explain why's, don't make threats that you don't fully intend to follow through with and I would suggest to not make a threat per se, but instead make sure they know if they act up that the punishment will happen. This way they control their destiny whether that be a punishment or reward.

Speak quietly and caring when discussing the why's. They often feel bad but also feel out of control. You have to get them back in control of their actions and that includes the punishment or reward aspect.

One of the great stories of this is Bjorn Borg, the tennis great. When he was younger he threw horrible fits of rage, anger and finger pointing on the tennis court and elsewhere. His father knew how much he cared about tennis and told him that if he didn't knock it off and become a gentlemen on the court and elsewhere he would take away the rackets and the lessons etc etc.

He straightened up obviously.

I wish you the best of luck, don't expect a change overnight and there will be set backs but you will be doing us all a huge favor. He will be an adult one day.

 

Of course I don't like it.

You recommended a prayer?

How innocent do you really think you sound right now?

You are far gone enough in your delusion to offer a father 'Jesus' and 'Christian philosophy' as the only answer, who just posted about brainwashing his 8 years old son because he thinks there is nothing left to do.

And you are calling me abusive?

This has nothing to do with Atheism vs Theism.
It's disgusting that you are actually, completely aware of what's going on, what I am saying, and yet you pretend to be a some sort of victim here.

Anyway, this conversation is over.

 

EJ, remember that was lews choice no one here made the suggestion but HIM.

 

The team idea isn't bad, especially if he respects your wishes enough right? Gives you sort of a "head coach" approach. Try not to make it too obvious, because he may see right through it. Though I think sometimes kids LIKE those type of role playing things, so even if they know it is, they're okay with it.

God is there for inspiration for those who can't find it anywhere else, and it's okay. That's what I've come to realize in the forums. No matter how much "evidence" there is against it, how much pain and drudgery it causes for all mankind, some people just NEED it, they don't have any thing else going for them, or they can't see the value in anything else around them. The brain is a complex of 10^90 connections of neurons, of course people are going to vary in their perception of the world. What your wife did, well, is difficult, and perhaps only temporary. She will find her way. As you and your son will too. It's a matter of perception, what is important to you and why? As long as you know that and always keep that behind your every-day actions, you fulfill your own destiny. Good luck to you, and please keep an update, ha. I always have a different respect for parents that try to help their kids by doing something other than heavily medicating them, and excusing them for their actions.

It's awful, the modern day "pass it off to someone/something else" philosophy that ruins our daily standard of living. And the people that take the ball only do so if you're paying them too,rarely for charitable contributions to society...ha. That's a part of my loathing for prescription based psychiatry and medicare in general. There's too much profit to be made in other people's misfortune, so much that there is no ethical boundary anymore. Every two-bit drug facility can concoct something that works for some people in most cases, but the statistics show that the number of children on prescriptions for depression, anxiety, anxiousness, etc...has increased exponentially in the last 60 years, from a time when lobotomies and sterilization were still considered effective, which most people don't realize was in our mother and fathers era. Even worse, people use those days to compare to our current, "more civilized", drug your kids up as much as you can because drugs work temporarily and make it easier on everyone in the short term.

But interesting post nevertheless.

In the meantime, you might want to expose your son to some of the Christianity anyway, see how he reacts, see what he thinks about it. Just have him watch a movie or something, and see what he says about it without saying you do or don't believe in it until he says what HE thinks about it. It may spark something inside of him without even going to the depths of hell, it may give that trigger that it gives so many others that turns them to convert and search more.

And by convert I mean to either side, my trigger was when I learned about space from Ms. Frizzle and the Magic School Bus. I thought to myself, why are we so important to God and then he just decided to create the solar system and the sun and galaxies, millions of billions of miles away, why aren't we just on our own planet with nothing around us? Whats the point? And then more and more questions followed. None of them could be answered to my liking, and I realized that it was up to me to do what is right and wrong, not a book. I realized that the book and the fanfare at church (a southern baptist church really that found its way up north) was good to start, but I get it now, bad things happen when bad people are around, and its best if the majority of people aren't bad. It made sense to me that if most people are good most things that happen will be good as well...

... heaven and hell, and redemption from sin that was brought to me from two people three millennia ago that decided to eat an apple someone told them not to, well screw them, I didn't eat the apple, why should I be punished for it?

Just like when the whole class has to sit in time out because a majority of them are misbehaving, but the kids that want to learn don't get to. How many times has that happened to you? All those religious things I had believed for a decade started falling apart when I realized that there was something larger in the world, something more important than fairy tales and parables. And I grew up...and find myself to be far more "moralistic" than my religious friends.

But the moral of my tale, introduce him to something he hasn't seen or heard before, something that has profound implications, and it might just trigger his logical understand that other things haven't.

 

Haha, I'm glad you do, but do you realize the MAJORITY of people going to church are still doing things "sinful' and asking for forgiveness. Maybe they're not just sleeping around and murdering, and molesting children all the time, but when things start going the wrong way, they go to church MORE and PRAY MORE, and become more actively pious because they realize they have to "compensate" that's what religion does is create a feedback system...you feel bad, seek god, you feel sick, seek God, you want a better job...ask God...you feel guilty about your actions...Ask God to forgive you...you're lonely and feel helpless...Hey God! Can I trouble you for a moment...and in all this up and down up and down you feel BETTER about everything because it all has "meaning" it all "makes sense". Your life that was once vapid and devoid of substance finally has a soap box to stand on...it means something to you, and then you act like your existence means something to you in social situations and, voilà, you get another feedback system...companionship, love, success...happiness.

That's what religion and God do for people, the book and stories are at the end of the day, irrelevant, as they should be, because they're antiquated, and have nothing to say but act as parable for human suffering and triumph in the face of adversity.

You see, when you talk to people about their "belief" in God, and how strongly they have accepted Jesus to their hearts, you hear their extroverted prospective, you know what they WANT you to know. The privacy and intimacy between them and God is not unveiled to you...I know what is really going on because their actions show them...I interact with them everyday and greed, selfishness, lust, loneliness, despair, and anger is just as much a part of them as it is the atheists', the demons' and the wicked in their books and prophecies...and its okay, they're human. That's all I'm trying to say...humans have problems, and religion, as medications, help them "disappear", usually only temporarily. The difference between me and them is I use my daily logical assessments of life to guide me and don't rely on those external factors to push me through...there's nothing wrong with that and I don't expect everyone to act like me...why should they?

What I do expect, however, is that people understand WHY they believe in God, because its not the "evidence" in the bible its not the "clear beauty around them" in intelligent design...I know its not these things because science explains these things 100% better than the Bible, and with more detail, and with more provable testable assumptions...

... it's their own satisfaction with their interaction with "God". It's their own success stories. It's their own betterment... and to assume that I or anyone else for that matter is going to believe something because YOU feel better while believing it, is silly, at the end of the day...