# hybrid car idea

Discussion in 'Architecture & Engineering' started by vslayer, Apr 23, 2008.

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1. ### MetaKronRegistered Senior Member

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They're screwing us over royally.

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"Where do you even get a suitable electric motor?"

Surplus military aircraft starter-generators.

"How do you attach it to the transmission?"

There is none: 4 starter-generators get mated directly to the wheel hubs.

I have access to more than enough tooling and brains to integrate and build these. All electrical gear is off-the-shelf stuff. Chassis/cabin/comforts are part of any good vehicle for transplant. I'm starting with a 1968 VW bug.

5. ### MetaKronRegistered Senior Member

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Hype, there is prior art on this and I suppose that you have actually done this research. It still looks like a lot of unslung weight, taking the long way around, and very hard to do right. How do you get the front two right for steering? I would take the lazy way out and hook the motor to the driveshaft of a rear-drive car, hopefully with a posi-trak differential. Either that or I would find a way to use the transmission of a front-wheel drive car, and yes, there is also prior art for doing that.

7. ### Echo3RomeoOne man wolfpackRegistered Senior Member

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Reducing unsprung weight is an axiomatically good thing, as it benefits a wheel's bump-following ability over road surface irregularities as well as the transient response time on turn-in (especially important in performace driving). As a general rule of thumb, a pound of unsprung mass equates to ten times that of sprung mass as far as its effects on handling, acceleration, and braking are concerned.

Of course, I sort of doubt people who are in the market for an economy vehicle care much about such things.

8. ### MetaKronRegistered Senior Member

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Well, a 6 volt 1000 amp motor costs a huge amount of money and for good reasons. I thought that a three phase motor could be run using solid state controllers and moderately high voltages. It would be cheaper because a lower amperage motor uses a lot less copper. It would also weigh less. Even the $9,000 conversion kit is a lot cheaper than the crap hybrids that sell for$29,000 also.

9. ### kmguruStaff Member

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I just learned that you can strip hydrogen from Steam cheaply using a catalyst. Perhaps that would be another way for a zero carbon footprint....

10. ### MetaKronRegistered Senior Member

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If we take the carbon dioxide out of the air the plant life will die off.

11. ### kmguruStaff Member

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If we put too much than plants can consume (like breathing pure oxygen for humans) that would not help either....

12. ### MetaKronRegistered Senior Member

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I suspect that the plants are already consuming as much as we can put out.

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Metachron: "How do you get the front two right for steering?"

It's all Amps, and all easy. You can program an inverter to provide constant even power and/or braking to all 4 wheels as required within microseconds. Power and braking are even mixed slightly in sharp turns.

Forget everything you know about cars with (heavy energy-robbing) transmissions.

14. ### MetaKronRegistered Senior Member

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Hypewaders, if the inside wheel on a turn pulls with as much force as the outside wheel, the car will skitter all over the place. Ever drive a four-wheel drive vehicle on pavement in the wrong setting?

15. ### Echo3RomeoOne man wolfpackRegistered Senior Member

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I'm sure it could be done. Ever drive a Mitsubishi Evo? The electronic AWD uses Active Yaw Control to stabilize the vehicle during hard cornering by modulating the clutches between the diffs and each halfshaft. The result is a very precise amount of torque arriving at each tire, exactly when it is needed, in order to keep the car on the tarmac and pointed in the right direction.

You can see AYC in action here: http://youtube.com/watch?v=L69Qxy6OFvs

I certainly wouldn't want to try something like this on a homebrew EV unless I could use someone else's modules and programming, because the effort to DIY would be simply heroic not to mention requiring encyclopedic knowledge of controller design. And again, if the traction motors are mounted directly to the hubs (unsprung weight) then the car is going to handle like a 5,000lb boulevard queen SUV, negating any possible handling benefit. It is a neat idea though.

16. ### Billy TUse Sugar Cane Alcohol car FuelValued Senior Member

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Controlling AC motor/generators is easy to do smoothly and reliably through a wide range of RPM and torque, with active compensation for traction and cornering challenges. Mostly vestigial disc brakes take over in emergency or parking. All other braking goes back to the inverter for processing and storage. Energy is becoming transferable just like memory, people. Wake up.

I'm talking homebuilt car here- Because of the corporate structure of design/engineering, they are years behind implementing off-the-shelf solid-state, bullet-proof industrial controls that are already certified and reliable in equipment very similar, and equally as critical in terms of safety.

Military surplus AC starter-generators, programmable controllers, and lotsa batteries (lead acid will do for up to 80 miles at 75 mph). Want more performance? Buy more expensive batteries, or a Honda Generator on a lightweight trailer that plugs into the car and gets 60 mpg.

Off the shelf is now off the charts in terms of value.

I wouldn't lie to you- All of this is off the shelf now.

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Did I mention that in the case of a US plug-in car, the average residential power customer gets his transportation energy for the equivalent of around 30 cents/gallon. Which many typical contemporary roof or yard-mounted PV arrays can provide even off grid.

Ponder that.

19. ### Billy TUse Sugar Cane Alcohol car FuelValued Senior Member

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I don't doubt what you say about making your own car, but let me warn you:

One summer I worked directly under a man who did. He bought the steel chasic from Ford and perhaps parts of motor and transmission - I forget the details. When he went to register it (in an office, car not visible to the clerk) the clerk asked: "What make is it?" My boss replied: "It's a McCulla." as that was my boss's name.

Big mistake. - The correct response was: "It is a customized Ford." That McCulla needed everything your can think of, but they did wave the crash test data requirements, after a year or so. etc. and several years later it was legally on the road.

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Put 3 wheels on it, 2 front, 1 rear.

Not only is it lighter and more stable, there are no crash tests or standards required in any US State. None.

21. ### Billy TUse Sugar Cane Alcohol car FuelValued Senior Member

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Good idea. Where should the motor be, if there is only one, instead of three? In rear wheel, or near CoG, over the front wheels? - you thoughts - just courious, not about to make a three wheeler (or any car).

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23. ### draqonBannedBanned

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Actually they got a mass produced 3-wheeler called T-rex