Human Shields. Is it OK to Kill them?

On your strict definitions, the first is vanishingly rare in military conflicts involving the US, and the second overwhelmingly common in those same conflicts.

And establishing that would advance the discussion around here quite a bit. You won't get any opposition from me in that effort.

 

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I am neither old nor a fool. I have stated exactly what Afghani government officials, even those who are US allies are saying. The US to blame for all the casualties of the conflict, including the poverty associated with their invasion and the deaths of refugees whose homes have been bombed. In Iraq, the US has killed more than a million people due to overt bombing and covert economic sanctions, destruction of farms and livestock.

It's quite natural for you to deny this, but try convincing the Afghanis and iraqis otherwise. Victims never feel sympathy for their exploiters.

 

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Typical Muslim theocratic blindness.....It is always the Infidels Fault....Yes can you get any more of a parochial diaconal view than that DH?

 

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Don't you mean human sacrifices?

 

Don't just waste 'em-

Taste 'em.

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Typical, endemic US ocular dysfunction. You would do well to ingest DH`s posts. You may learn some facts. But, what to do about your racist dystopia?

 

Diamond, how about you back this all up, I can name numbers of resources verified by the worlds leading political and demographic researchers to be correct.

While you name propaganda that would do anything for you to blow up the infidel.

Your terrorist networks don't even number in the hundreds of thousands let alone millions

And also, where are these supermassive grave sights that would hold these millions of people

 

First off the coalition is like 50% us, so stop saying it's an American invasion.

Anyways dozens of countries and the best experts in the world estimate the civilian death toll to be at 15000 people

DH with no demographic experiance at all and can't even be called a novice on the subject not only claims that the worlds best screwed up by a few million people, he also fails to cite any resource that backs him up and gives no clear explanation as to how he arrived at his coclusion.

 

Of course...

See below for the most accurate survey to date, relating to Iraqi deaths.

(From ORB- Opinion Research Business - http://www.opinion.co.uk/Newsroom_details.aspx?NewsId=78)

See above for who actually qualifies for NOVICE status.

 

Straw dog, your arguement is futile, it is agreed by many that the first two years of the war inflicted about 4000 civilian casualties during the aerial bombardments and actual invasion.

Now in order for your amazinglyoff statement, to reach a total of a million civilian casualties it would take on average 125000 civilians killed per year so your statement is off by 246000 people the first year

Oh and, this info comes directly from the afghans whom counted the bodies so I can garuntee their credibility.

 

Who counted? How do you bombard buildings for a whole year and kill only 4000 people? [a couple of buildings in New York killed 3000]

How many people is it okay to kill by bombardment?

 

Between 2004-2005 around 1500 civilians were killed

So once more you are off by a few hundred thousand

Have I made my point?

It's also entertainning to see in an act of desperation you cited one source that claimed 150000 civilian casualties and another that says a million. Next time you try to prove me wrong atleast read your facts.

 

For starters we didn't "bombard" them, if we did that Baghdad would have looked like dresdon. Two words explain why there were so few civilian casualties and those are JDAM bombs. Plus, we were hitting military targets, if a civilian was in an ammunition dump than what in the world are they doing there?

 

You seen pics of the bombardment? Know the amount of ordnance used?

Whats a military target in Baghdad? What would be a military target in Washington that would result in 10 casualties a day if bombed?

 

Ive seen videos, I've seen gun camera phootage, I even saw a tomahawk nail some barracks. Sam, since you asked the question you tell me how much ordnance was used. And I don't want any bullshit from some al jazeera report, I want the actual DoD report on the amount of ordnance used in the tactical bombing of Baghdad, and if it's any consolation, dresdon lost 25000 people in the bombing which practically levelled the city, so in fact 4000 isn't too small.

 

Who is counting?

Here is one source of just a few bombings [directed at "military targets"]
http://www.hrw.org/en/news/2006/03/16/us-minimize-civilian-casualties-iraq

There were over 50 Pine Gap directed strikes in the invasion phase. Of four investigated by Human Rights Watch, 42 civilians were killed and zero soldiers. This averages 13 casualties per strike, which, when multiplied by 50, totals 650 corpses. During this time the Australian media and star commentators were waxing lyrical about the Pentagon’s “precision bombing”.

Australian anti war campaigner, Donna Mulhearn, was in Baghdad in March 2003 when a missile struck the Al Shuala markets, killing over 60 civilians. Donna took a bus to the site and found "complete devastation with pieces of iron and tin mangled into grotesque shapes. Mashed pieces of fruit and cardboard were soaked in the blood and mud, along with pieces of human flesh”. Hundreds were injured and the hospitals lacked anaesthetics.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pine_Gap

 

For one, the afghans

Sam, so out of what a few hundred airstrikes there are a dozen screw ups? Boy, 99% of your strikes are directed AT civilians.

 

We are talking Iraq here remember -

And somehow, I must take your word for it rather than that of one of the most highly regarded survey business on the planet?

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Why don`t you READ the survey, methodology, spreadsheets, and LEARN?

 

Reported

 

I suggest you do some research on the economic sanctions on Iraq of food, water, and medicine following the Gulf war which killed an estimated 1.8 million Iraqi civilians, half of whom were children. This was before America's invasion of Iraq and the bombing of civilian neighborhoods, along with complete destruction of the infrastructure of its civilian infrastructure.