Human Compassion being Killed?

Discussion in 'Ethics, Morality, & Justice' started by Baron Max, Dec 19, 2008.

  1. Baron Max Registered Senior Member

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    23,053
    Calif. Court: Would-be Good Samaritan can be sued
    Published: 12/18/08, 6:25 PM EDT
    By PAUL ELIAS
    LOS ANGELES (AP) -


    Proving that no good deed goes unpunished, the state's high court on Thursday said a would-be Good Samaritan accused of rendering her friend paraplegic by pulling her from a wrecked car "like a rag doll" can be sued.

    California's Supreme Court ruled that the state's Good Samaritan law only protects people from liability if the are administering emergency medical care, and that Lisa Torti's attempted rescue of her friend didn't qualify.

    Justice Carlos Moreno wrote for a unanimous court that a person is not obligated to come to someone's aid.

    "If, however, a person elects to come to someone's aid, he or she has a duty to exercise due care," he wrote.

    Torti had argued that she should still be protected from a lawsuit because she was giving "medical care" when she pulled her friend from a car wreck.

    Alexandra Van Horn was in the front passenger seat of a car that slammed into a light pole at 45 mph on Nov. 1, 2004, according to her negligence lawsuit.

    Torti was a passenger in a car that was following behind the vehicle and stopped after the crash. Torti said when she came across the wreck she feared the car was going to explode and pulled Van Horn out. Van Horn testified that Torti pulled her out of the wreckage "like a rag doll." Van Horn blamed her friend for her paralysis.

    Whether Torti is ultimately liable is still to be determined, but Van Horn's lawsuit can go forward, the Supreme Court ruled.

    Beverly Hills lawyer Robert Hutchinson, who represented Van Horn, said he's pleased with the ruling.

    Torti's attorney, Ronald Kent, of Los Angeles didn't immediately return a telephone call.

    Copyright 2008 Associated Press. All rights reserved.


    Hmm, is the age of compassion for our fellow humans being killed off by the courts? Or is it just dying of old age?

    The moral of the story? Don't lift one single finger to help anyone, ever, in any situation. Car accident? Gasoline leaking? Car might explode in a fiery plume of flame and smoke? No, no, ...don't help! Just let the poor dumb bastard die.

    Baron Max
     
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  3. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

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    Here's the important part, which you seem to have missed.

    The question in court will be whether the person who pulled the other other of the car exercised due care in doing so. If so, the suit will fail. If not, then she will be liable.

    Seems fair to me.
     
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  5. distantcube Registered Member

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    Looks like she should have let the silly bitch risk going up in flames. Even better, she should have taken a video of the car turning into a fireball and posted it on Youtube for our entertainment.
     
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  7. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Valued Senior Member

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    Are lawyers really so strong?

    I don't think compassion is being killed. It has persisted despite wars and disasters, religion, politics, and centuries steeped in greed and fear. It will survive the lawyers, as well.
     
  8. Captain Kremmen All aboard, me Hearties! Valued Senior Member

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    That wasn't compassion, that was stupidity.
    Everyone knows not to move someone in an accident.
    If the car was actually on fire, that would be different.


    Torti needs to be locked up, and for a long time.
    Firstly, for her annoying name, and secondly for her wilful ignorance.
    If you had a bee about to sting you on the nose, she'd probably pop off a shell at it.

    "I was shooting at the bee!"
     
  9. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Valued Senior Member

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    37,891
    Well, now that you mention it ....

    Word on the street is that in shooting bees, the greatest danger is to the self.

     
  10. Bells Staff Member

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    A bit of a heartless declaration, don't you think?

    She wasn't at risk of death and the car was not on fire.

    The story does not state whether gasoline was leaking. If it was not, you do not move the injured and wait for the professionals (paramedics) to arrive to remove them from the car. Common sense really. I have come across many accidents and the only time I (and others who stopped to render assistance) have pulled the passengers from the car was when smoke was coming out of the back of the car near the fuel tank.. we tipped the car back so that it was right way up (amazing how light some SUV's actually are), pulled the kids out and supported their necks the whole time.. and then helped the two adults to get out of the car. And we pulled them out as gently as we could with several of us helping to lift them out as they tried to clamber out of their car.. The other accidents.. I and others there refused to help them out of the car until the paramedics had arrived, instead rendering first aid to them in the car itself (one time, through the broken windscreen) until help arrived.

    It is utter stupidity to drag people out of their vehicles after an accident if they have been injured and there is no risk of the car bursting into flames. And to just drag them out of the car like that. Huge no no.
     
  11. cosmictraveler Be kind to yourself always. Valued Senior Member

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    How can you be certain that the car won't catch on fire? There could be a small rupture in the fuel line causeing a trickle of gas to flow out eventually causing a fire. How can you ever know that isn't going to happen with any wreck?:shrug:
     
  12. mikenostic Stop pretending you're smart! Registered Senior Member

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    4,624
    Really? It seems fucking stupid and assinine to me.
    Because the more people that hear about this, the less likely they are to try to pull someone out of a burning car.

    Given the choice, I'd much rather someone pull me out of a burning car exercising no care whatsoever, than for them to leave me there.

    I liken this to a burglar being able to sue a homeowner of a home that they broke into and got injured, and that lawsuit the lady filed against McDonalds for burning herself from hot coffee.


    This situation needs to be added to this obituary:
    http://www.naute.com/thinkery/obituary.phtml


    Not when the fear of a senseless lawsuit of improper care looms over your head.
     
  13. TW Scott Minister of Technology Registered Senior Member

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    4,149
    Well car slamming into light pole at 45mph does bring up other concerns. Like the possibility of powerlines as well. These lines have been known to pop free after sch a hit. Also one should factor in the state of mind of witnesses and rescuers.
    After all they may have been rattled by the very act of witnessing the accident.

    Torti propably pulled her friend out thinking it was good idea for several reasons. She might not have had all oars working while she thought of it, as she might have been in shock herself.
     
  14. John99 Banned Banned

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    22,046
    seems reasonable that this person involved in a 45 mph crash would be a little pissed.
     
  15. Bells Staff Member

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    You can't. That's why you turn off the ignition and as I've seen people do, manage to wrench up the hood of the car and disconnect the battery completely, which is the safest option.

    I've rendered first aid to a woman in an accident on the freeway and fuel was leaking.. I didn't remove her from the car.. instead we disconnected the battery and made sure no one came near the car with a cigarette. I didn't remove her from the car because we suspected she had spinal injuries due to the nature of the crash itself (smashed from behind, then she spun out of control and smashed side on into a guard rail, only to then be hit side on by another car.. was quite horrific tbh). And we were right.. A doctor who was passing on the opposite side of the freeway stopped to help us a few minutes after the accident happened and he refused to move her as well until the paramedics arrived...

    If you see smoke or flames coming out of the car, then it is a different matter entirely. But if there is no smoke, don't move them. If fuel is leaking, make sure you are able to move them from the car quickly (eg.. open the doors if you can or windows or windscreen, etc) if the fuel does spark.
     
  16. madanthonywayne Morning in America Registered Senior Member

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    Do you have any idea how expensive defending yourself in court can be? Even if she wins the case, the legal fees could bankrupt her. This case should have been dismissed immrdiately. People may well die due to this case going forward since bystanders may be afraid to render assistancw.
     
  17. LadyMidnight Catherine J. Registered Senior Member

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    People don't normally think logically in life-or-death situations, especially when a supposed "friend" is involved. Maybe the car didn't explode, but she thought it would and saving her friend's life became the top priority. I would do the same thing and I can't imagine any of my friends being such cunts.

    It reminds me of that case where a woman had a heart attack and a random stranger came to the woman's aid, performed CPR, and saved her life. He unbuttoned her shirt to administer the CPR and she sued him for exposing her in public. I don't care if the entire world sees my boobies if it means saving my life. I'd want to live and I'd be damn grateful to that person.
     
  18. nietzschefan Thread Killer Valued Senior Member

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    Well fuck me, I'm gonna check Canadian/Ontario law on this right now.

    No fuckin way would I help anyone in that state after this decision. Fucking laws. To MANY fucking laws.
     
  19. Bells Staff Member

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    24,270
    It is sad in a way. I can understand her sentiments in pulling her friend out of the car. But at the end of the day, if there is no immediate danger of the car catching fire, it is always best to not move someone who is injured unless you know what you're doing. If the car is on fire, then hell yeah.. pull the person out as carefully and as quickly as you can and hope for the best.

    You want to help a friend.. just as you'd want to help a family.. But sometimes you can do a lot more harm than good.. just ask my mother who once jammed jelly beans into my mouth when I fainted at the dentist after a severe bout of gastro.. when the dentist rushed out and asked her if I had eaten, she said no.. not for around a week.. he said "she needs to eat".. so my dear caring mother took out a bag of glucose jelly beans and started jamming them in my mouth.. I remember coming to choking on them as the dentist shoved my mother back and started clearing my airways. I was around 13 or so at the time and she forced me to come with her to the dentist because she was concerned about leaving me home alone and sick. She was trying to help her child but could easily have killed me in her panic.

    The friend is an arse for suing her though.

    At the end of the day, it is almost an expectation of common sense. It is common sense to not move someone if you don't know if they have suffered spinal injuries.. unless the situation means that it is essential to move them (eg car on fire). And it is hard to find common sense when it is someone you know who is hurt.. But she still shouldn't have dragged her out of the car like that if there was no immediate danger of the car catching fire. She shouldn't be sued for it.. but she still shouldn't have done it.

    As I said.. it's kind of sad all round.
     
  20. Bells Staff Member

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    24,270
    One thing that will need to be established is whether her actual removal from the car caused the paralysis in the first place, or whether it was the accident itself that caused it.

    As for the "too many fucking laws".. my advice is to continue to call for tort reform..

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  21. Captain Kremmen All aboard, me Hearties! Valued Senior Member

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    Maybe she shouldn't be sent to prison.
    Not for long anyway.
    But there are a few places she shouldn't be allowed to go.
    For example, sports events.

    Imagine a rough game where a player is lying on the ground, concussed, with a possible neck injury.
    The paramedics are gingerly lifting him on to a secure stretcher.
    Everyone watching is holding their breath.
    You just know that if Torti is in the crowd she will leap onto the pitch and sling the player over her shoulder.
    She means well, but she's a danger to everyone.
     
    Last edited: Dec 20, 2008
  22. Bells Staff Member

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    24,270
    I lol'ed.
     
  23. milkweed Valued Senior Member

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    "pulled out like a rag doll"

    Sounds to me like the person was already a paraplegic when she was removed from the car.

    But good to know. If I come across such an incident, it will be much easier to just keep driving away now. Gotta avoid getting lawyers involved in my life. Its a priority thing.
     

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