Discussion in 'World Events' started by ElectricFetus, Mar 5, 2013.
Saddam Hussein was elected, so was Stalin.
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Again the man persecuted all media/journalist that spoke out against him and had them closed down or take off the airwaves, minimized the amount of media his opponents could use while doing multi hour long propaganda monologues on TV roughly every week, centralized government under him, extended his own terms and abolished term limits. Without fair media representation for his opponents, and no term limits it's likely he would have gone on for decades more as "presidente". If you are extremely impoverish and someone came to you and said "I'll give you food and shelter if you vote for me and never question me, OR ELSE" I'm pretty sure you would do it. If you were a worldly liberal and someone also got in the face of assholes like Bush Jr, you would probably think he was a great guy, just because you didn't really know anything else about him besides that he gives to the poor, but truth be told someone that tries to destroy freedom of speech and consolidate power for life is by definition a dictator, a "nice" dictator that gave to the poor and called imperialist idiots out for who they were, but a dictator none the less.
They were not democratically elected - as Chavez was. Please don`t compare apples with oranges.
Independent Observers: Venezuela's Election a Model of Democracy
Best you cite the sources of these claims, although he did restructure government to suit his agenda somewhat.
And if a "presidente" comes along and promises to lift you and the millions just like you out of poverty - and then follows through with his promise (to a large extent) you would vote him in again no? Especially if he granted you free education and medical as well. Which he did, and which suggests a rare level of compassion and empathy not often found in politicians.
He is a great guy not because of what I think or care, but because he tackled social injustice, poverty, and health and education inequality by redistributing national wealth from the hands of the few to the masses. In doing such he no doubt pissed off the Venezuelan upper and middle classes no end - as well as the purveyors of the corporatist capitalist paradigm of the "international community". Noted in your predictable negativity noted above.
Easy, they just elect someone the US doesn't approve of.
Are you ****g blind? America is the one who killed him. What Venezuela needs now is to exterminate all American spies and all bought politician pawns who are working in moving oil companies from USA to Venezuela.
Easy he is American and labels anyone who is not with American as "dictator" , "terrorist", or whatever new name CNN comes up with to show to its fellow supporting wars citizens.
You have no evidence that the US killed Chavez.
And if the next leader starts executing people because they are "spies",
Venezuela could become a Stalinist bloodbath.
I was joking that America could "help".
That's the last thing they need.
Perhaps America could look to Venezuela for some tips on how to reduce the excessive number of poor people
who can't afford to feed their children a nutritional diet.
Not starving, but storing up future ill health by a diet of crap.
See article in Forbes:
Many mother and father are from Venezuela, all my grandparents, and most of my relatives lived there, most had moved out in the last 10 years. Most of them were middle class Venezuelans that suffered under the rain of Chavez. My grandfather voting for him the first time and had to vote for him the second time or else he would lose his job if they found out he had not!
Its easy to stereotype people, to idealize or demonize, when you live countries away, but I had to hear enough crap from my own family who lived under the man to know Chavez was not a great man, certainly not as violent as most dictators but a dictator none the less.
Chavez reduction of poverty came at the expense of the countries economic growth and stability. Tell me what is the only Latin American country without economic growth on this chart? In fact every major Latin American country beside Mexico managed more economic growth since 1999 than Venezuela.
Why are you people so concerned about the poor people in other country. There are people that are satisfied as they live , STOP telling people what and how should the live . U believe the Venezuelan are more happy as a whole then the American, Let each society progress on their own
About blood bath , I doubt it very much , I lived there during the dictatorship of Perez Jimenes . The Venezuelan are emotional yes, but also compassionate , They will bitch but at the same time they have fun.
I lived there also and I moved here but it was not because it was bad for me , it was because I wanted to see America , and there are many ho have done just like me . Meny of us have an illusion of America, I wanted to get my ass out of here in the first year . If your grandfather worked for the system , the system expect some return . Over here is the same.
As far dictatorship, there were 3 dictators in the last 100 years and the last so called dictator Is Chaves and in my view he is the most benevolent. During Perez Jimenez you could not express yourself as during Chavez .
But anyway, let God help them.
I'm taking Venezuela off speed dial as we speak.
Most of them had come to the states and back repeatedly, my grandfather was educated in the states, he choose to live in Venezuela until his finally years when Chavez made that to depressing for him.
Are you implying my grandfather was a deadbeat?
Oh certainly he was the most benevolent, but he was still a dictator. Now if Venezuela could only get a man that is pro-social welfare AND open media plus restrictions on presidential authority; sadly power corrupts. I remember how Chavez's media claimed Capriles was some kind of Israeli plant just because the guy had Jewish ancestry, sort of like the shit the pro-Romer media made against Chavez back in 1998 about him being a cannibal or to that end: aah how one becomes the very corruption one once fought against!
Chavez loses his battle, Heaven gains an angel
"The Venezuelan President Hugo Chávez, 58, passed away on Tuesday afternoon after a two-year battle with cancer and a severe respiratory infection. The news was announced in Caracas by Vice-President Nicolas Maduro, who was named by Chávez as the one he preferred to succeed him in the event of his death. "
If the Venezuelans are happy whether rich or poor, then Chavez has only done the country harm.
He has given them better health and education, but at the expense of stability.
As for me telling people what is best for them.
Possibly I have done, but only in the most general terms.
The USA has the best phrase for the ideal country. One that allows you:
"Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of happiness"
That about sums it up, I think.
As for whether Chavez is in heaven or hell.
It seems to depend on whether you agree with him or not.
So it is subjective, is it not?
I personally don't give a dam were he is .
Hopefully for them ( Venezuelan ) It might be a different horizon.
I think that Chavez has given his country progress,
and given all of South America a boost of Testosterone.
But Socialist countries often tend towards debilitating authoritarianism.
In the case of Chavez this is shown by his changing of the constitution to get a third term,
control of the media etc
Lets hope now for increased democracy,
better exploitation of resources,
and a government which reflects the needs of all the people.
Or Life, Liberty...............
Oh my god I think this is it, thread closures! Usually a thread goes off-topic and endless debate ad infinitum, or is just forgotten, but this maybe a very rare an special event when everyone comes to an agreement and the thread is over.
Yes, looking around.
I find it hard to find anyone who is saying that Venezuela would be better off if Chavez had not died.
Even his fans, and I am one of them, might say that his time was done.
Many people are saying "He rescued us from Tyranny", but they are not saying "We want more state control"
Castro of Cuba is also a venerated icon.
I love him too.
But I doubt that many Cubans are saying
"Lets have someone just like Castro"
The Venezuelans do not want a return to the past.
I think that after the obsequies, there will be some vigorous political activity.
I am really optimistic about things.
Who going to take power now in Venezuela? How about zombie Chavez?
Separate names with a comma.