How to avoid get married with an APD person?

Discussion in 'Human Science' started by entelecheia, Oct 13, 2012.

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  1. Neverfly

    Neverfly Banned Banned

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    Yeah ok. That's fine. I prefer citations to journals that are efficient to verify, thanks. Have a good one.
     
    Neverfly, Oct 17, 2012
    #61

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  3. Syne

    Syne Sine qua non Valued Senior Member

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    Characteristics of the antisocial personality:

    - He or she speaks only in very broad generalities.
    - Such a person deals mainly in bad news, critical or hostile
    remarks.
    - The antisocial personality alters, to worsen, communication
    when he or she relays a message or news.
    - The antisocial personality habitually selects the wrong target.
    - Many antisocial persons will freely confess to the most
    alarming crimes when forced to do so, but will have no faintest sense
    of responsibility for them.
    - This type of personality approves only of destructive actions
    and fights against constructive or helpful actions or activities.
    - The antisocial personality has a bad sense of property and
    conceives that the idea that anyone owns anything is a pretense,
    made up to fool people.
     
    Syne, Oct 17, 2012
    #62

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  5. KilljoyKlown

    KilljoyKlown Whatever Valued Senior Member

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    KilljoyKlown, Oct 17, 2012
    #63

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  7. Engell79

    Engell79 Registered Senior Member

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    Alphas and Betas are a known fact for wolves, that exists in most packs. I wont call you a lair, how ever show me a DIRECT link that has general proff of above?
    I know there are study's that show that some (rare) wolfpacks develop a Non-alpha structure, how ever a very rare thing, but even within these packs theres a hiracy.

    Are u reffering to the studys done on wolf-hunt-packs? were strafing wolves team up together with no obvious hiracy and work together to get food, but only while there is a shortage?

    The Alpha role in wolf packs is very important, its part of the whole....stongest genes get in the wolf-girlies pants......or strongest genes get the wolfy-willy.(depending on alpha female or male.)
     
    Engell79, Oct 17, 2012
    #64
  8. parmalee

    parmalee peripatetic artisan Valued Senior Member

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    I'm referring to wolves in their natural environment, NOT held in captivity, as I clearly noted--which all of previous research was done on. And I provided a link in post #50: http://www.wolf.org/wolves/learn/basic/resources/mech_pdfs/267alphastatus_english.pdf

    Parental and familial structures are not generally regarded as hierarchical. And ethologists--and sane individuals--generally regard "studies" undertaken in a lab or in confinement as highly suspect, at best--by analogy:

    Take a child. Beat it over the head, throw it in the back of a van, and then toss it into a prison. I can pretty much guarantee that it will not behave as it would under ordinary circumstances, and any "tricks" it performs for you will tell you nothing of it's normal behavior.

    This much--the acknowledgement of breeding males--is acknowledged; however, as the remaining qualifications for previous understanding of "alpha" are entirely mythological, the term is rendered effectively useless.
     
    parmalee, Oct 17, 2012
    #65
  9. Engell79

    Engell79 Registered Senior Member

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    I gave the whole thing a quick read and I'm gonna read it again slowly.
    From what I can read, he dosnt argue against alpha, beta and omega structure in the
    Wild, he even uses the term numerous times. Yes he writes in the lines of it beeing a more
    Family oriented hiracy.
    How ever u could say that about numerous other spicies wich are considered living in an alpha/beta/omega society.
    I do now understand your point better, but this publication does not dispute the alpha structure among wolves in the wild
    It just has a different view and stand point.
     
    Engell79, Oct 17, 2012
    #66
  10. wynn

    wynn ˙ Valued Senior Member

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    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

     
    wynn, Oct 17, 2012
    #67
  11. Engell79

    Engell79 Registered Senior Member

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    Nice poster

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    Think om gonna make print of it
     
    Engell79, Oct 17, 2012
    #68
  12. Fraggle Rocker

    Fraggle Rocker Staff Member

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    Hyenas form much larger groups, typically 50 and sometimes as many as 100. Since hyenas are comfortable as both hunters and scavengers (like coyotes but unlike wolves, who only scavenge when they're desperate), they frequently break up and forage as individuals or very small groups--scavenging is not a feeding strategy that works for large groups except in proximity to civilization with the enormous piles of perfectly good food which we call "garbage." Therefore, hyenas tend not to have a hierarchy; they just overwhelm their prey with sheer numbers.

    I read an amusing story about this. Hyenas typically follow larger predators and eat the less-desirable remnants of the kills that they leave behind, very much like coyotes. They often walk up and start feeding while the original killer is there, observing a grudging truce between the species, and getting a head-start on the jackals and other scavengers that would fight over the entrails. This one group of lions didn't appreciate the hyenas muscling in on their kill and began to hassle them. One of the hyenas had a chance to slip away and give her "help" call to the other members of the pack. Within minutes there were a hundred hyenas attacking the lions. They had to completely abandon their kills and climb up into the trees for safety--which is not an easy feat since lions don't have retractable claws for climbing like most other felines. And the hyenas got to eat the whole thing.

    Anyway, wolves don't hunt in hordes like hyenas. Their packs rarely number more than ten so if they're going to bring down a moose or a bison they have to be organized. This is the reason that's usually stated for the necessity of having a leader to tell everyone else what to do.

    We're more familiar with the subspecies of wolf Canis lupus familiaris, which we call "dogs." They've had thousands of generations of breeding by "unnatural selection" under our direction, and their instincts are substantially different from the instincts of a wolf. Dogs generally regard their human as their pack leader, by the expedient reasoning that the guy who drags home a dead cow every two weeks gets to be in charge even if he's the wrong species. But when the human is not around, our experience is that one of the dogs automatically takes over the leadership position, and it's more often one of the females.

    Wolves are intelligent and opportunistic and will often do whatever is necessary and expedient. We killed off most of the wolves in the USA and chased the survivors into Canada. When they got there they were so few in number that it was difficult to find a pack. So they simply walked into the nearest pack of coyotes and seized leadership with their superior size and strength. Wolves and coyotes have been cross-breeding in Canada for many generations now, resulting in a hybrid canine with the size, strength and courage of a wolf, but with the cunning of a coyote and the coyote's total lack of fear of humans and ease of adapting to the rules of civilization: just don't eat our babies and we'll probably leave you alone.

    These monsters (tremble at the thought of a 65-lb coyote) are slowly migrating back down into the eastern USA. I think the solution to our deer problem is at hand.

    Again, this does not square with the social behavior of dogs, but again it could merely be another manifestation of 12,000 years of breeding by humans. When a female dog is in estrus, she makes it her mission to copulate with every male in the vicinity. The result of this is that all the males regard the pups as their own offspring and will protect them. We have never seen a female express a preference for "the strongest genes." Our wimpiest little Lhasa Apso, with a deformed jaw and front legs much longer than his hind legs (we said his father was a fox and his mother was a giraffe) was always out there humpin' the girls when they were in heat. Neither the girls nor the other guys complained about it.

    Oh, and he was neutered--we would never in a million years have propagated his DNA. The medieval tales of eunuchs servicing the harem are probably true.
     
    Fraggle Rocker, Oct 17, 2012
    #69
  13. parmalee

    parmalee peripatetic artisan Valued Senior Member

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    I'll try to locate some more recent writing online (that piece was from 1999), but if I recall correctly, Mech and his associates no longer use that terminology (Alpha, Beta). It's meaning is too vague if on hand it denotes hierarchical stratifications, and on the other it denotes simply a familiar structure. Point being, the notion of individual wolves within a pack, constantly vying for an Alpha position is something that ONLY occurs under extreme stress and in wholly unnatural environments. IOW it's a myth born of various researchers arrogance, ignorance, and neuroses.
     
    parmalee, Oct 17, 2012
    #70
  14. wynn

    wynn ˙ Valued Senior Member

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    Then you need to visit an unemployment center, for example, and open your eyes and perk your ears.
     
    wynn, Oct 17, 2012
    #71
  15. Engell79

    Engell79 Registered Senior Member

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    I bow down and aknowlegde that your on the side of right.

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    found some National Geo publications on social structure of wolves, wich dated 2009
    They clearly avoided the whole Alpha notion and spoke of it as family structures in normal packs.

    I guess i was fallen under the spell of the:
     
    Engell79, Oct 17, 2012
    #72
  16. parmalee

    parmalee peripatetic artisan Valued Senior Member

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    Well, even Mech was under that spell until the latter part of the 90's--his work dates back to the 70's. I think it's only been in the past few years that everyone else has started jumping on board and acknowledging the faults in the Alpha premise. My background is anthropology and Continental thought, so studies undertaken in wholly "unnatural" environments (i.e., in captivity) have always been a point of contention for me.

    With respect to work on the social lives of animals, I feel like the entire first half of the 20th century was like a dark ages of sorts. In the latter part of the 19th century, we had folks like Darwin, von Uexkill, even Kropotkin, but then we got into the age of the Skinnerites whose political agendas seemed to inform their work in no small degree.
     
    parmalee, Oct 17, 2012
    #73
  17. parmalee

    parmalee peripatetic artisan Valued Senior Member

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    For closure on the wolf matter, I managed to locate the concluding remarks from the Mech paper in a format I can easily copy-paste:
    (Bolding mine)

    Now, back to sociopaths and Antisocial Personality Disorder!

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    parmalee, Oct 17, 2012
    #74
  18. Fraggle Rocker

    Fraggle Rocker Staff Member

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    I said "primarily." The competition between Christianity, Islam and Judaism is on the verge of immersing us all in a Nuclear Holy War. I don't see that level of organized hatred and violence at the day laborer pickup stops in the Home Depot parking lots, nor in the government bureaus for the unemployed.

    I've been unemployed. The waiting rooms I sat in were about as tranquil as a children's library.

    I continue to wonder which country you live in. Some of your experiences are utterly amazing.
     
    Fraggle Rocker, Oct 18, 2012
    #75
  19. ElectricFetus

    ElectricFetus Sanity going, going, gone Valued Senior Member

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    18,523
    I got this problems solves: don't get married, get vasectomy, life is good.

    I got enough emotional problems in my life with my family as is: my fathers is a wreck, my mother is insane, fuck one of my brothers is going to jail for dealing! Adding in a spouse and kids would likely drive me to put a bullet in my skull.

    Family. Religion. Friendship. These are the three demons you must slay if you wish to succeed...
    - Monty Burns
     
    ElectricFetus, Oct 18, 2012
    #76
  20. visceral_instinct

    visceral_instinct Monkey see, monkey denigrate Valued Senior Member

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    Solution: don't get married.

    Humans are annoying, overcomplicated turdballs. Avoid spending your life with one, it's much less stressful.
     
    visceral_instinct, Oct 19, 2012
    #77
  21. Enmos

    Enmos Valued Senior Member

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    43,184
    lol :worship:
     
    Enmos, Oct 19, 2012
    #78
  22. seagypsy

    seagypsy Banned Banned

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    Well until vulcans initiate first contact we have to work with what is available to us.
     
    seagypsy, Oct 19, 2012
    #79
  23. Fraggle Rocker

    Fraggle Rocker Staff Member

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    I'm married but I got the vasectomy. That seems to be a satisfactory compromise. My life has been splendid.

    I hope you support the Libertarian Party. We oppose all laws regulating what people do in private. Your brother is a victim of the system. My grandfather sold cocaine and Heroin (a Bayer Corp. trademark: "It makes you feel like a hero!") in his logically named drug store. Addiction wasn't much of a problem 100 years ago. If he sensed that one of his customers had a problem he'd just tell the guy's wife or mother next time she came in and that was the end of it. Women had their own means of power even before universal suffrage.

    Depends on your definition of "success." Humans are a pack-social species with an instinct for the companionship of friends and for more intimate relationships with family members. To deny that is to deny being human. Sure we're all different and some of us are able to make a rational decision to go against that instinct in order to attain what we experience as more satisfying goals. But that is a small fraction of the population.

    Religion... well I can't argue about that one. These days it's probably the single most dangerous force on the planet.

    A mixed-species pack works perfectly. A few dogs around the house keep the humans from taking themselves too seriously. So do parrots but personally I find them even more annoying than humans. Especially when one hides behind the toilet and jumps out to bite my toes.

    Thanks, but I'll take humans over Vulcans any day. Hell, I think I'd rather be married to a Klingon than a Vulcan. Maybe even a Ferengi, at least we'd be rich.

    Yes I know we're all blowing off steam here and saying things that greatly exaggerate what we think, but seriously, ya get what ya give. Anyone who finds humans to be poor company is almost surely regarded exactly the same by others. Relationships are bidirectional. Even with dogs and parrots.
     
    Fraggle Rocker, Oct 19, 2012
    #80
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