How much time is needed for the time travel?

Discussion in 'Astronomy, Exobiology, & Cosmology' started by Eagle9, Oct 16, 2014.

  1. krash661 [MK6] transitioning scifi to reality Valued Senior Member

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    yes, more unnecessary lengthily nonsense.
    again, try to read from the beginning. this time at least attempt to understand.
    also stop contradicting yourself left and right.
     
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  3. Landau Roof Registered Senior Member

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    598
    I have looked krash. You actually did say one useful thing that I agreed with: a clock only measures the passage of time, it does not create it. I was going to point that out to MD myself until I saw your comment.
    It seems I was also in the conversation from the beginning, and I stand by everything I said. I don't see how it's good enough for paddoboy to merely assert repeatedly that general relativity says nothing against time travel, and you to just keep shaking your head.
    So now will someone please address Motor Daddy's scenario? And while you're at it, getting back to the OP - how long would it take?

    P.S. If you don't know, why not just admit it?
     
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  5. krash661 [MK6] transitioning scifi to reality Valued Senior Member

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    you still do not understand. go back to my comments and read carefully.
    there is an answer to that question, you just can not grasp it , just like MD can not grasp what he's spewing.
    it's that simple.
     
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  7. krash661 [MK6] transitioning scifi to reality Valued Senior Member

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    i shook my head because the answer was already stated before the obvious trolling question was asked,[you are clueless to MD's constant shenanigans] it would have been obvious if the questioner was able to read and comprehend. it's that simple.
     
  8. krash661 [MK6] transitioning scifi to reality Valued Senior Member

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    by the traveler departing from that specific time line[once done, no time flow is occurring for the departed ,time flow is flowing as usual for non travelers in that time line]. arriving[if possible] to that exact location and time in the same time flow.
    again, time flows are shared within an overall time flow.
    each individual has their own time flow.
     
  9. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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    No, not at all...It's whinging because you have cast aspersions on me, burdened by your agenda in defending MD, It's whinging because you ignore obvious points that deflate your argument, It's whinging because you admit you don't understand, you admit you have not read everything, you lack the intestinal fortitude to correct yourself when shown wrong and in error, you lack the comprhension skills in understanding what I have said, in fact it has become obvious you do not want to understand what I have said.

    The last whinge of course is dramatically illustrated in suggesting the following two phrases are in someway contradictory....
    [1] Any sufficiently advanced civilisation that has the technology to manipulate space, time, spacetime, could well achieve it.
    [2]Any sufficiently advanced civilisation, that masters spacetime manipulation or other aspects of advanced physics, may find this possible.
    Obviously from that faupax, English appears to be your second language.


    Did you? That's nice. And who in the main was the "bickering"as you call it, between?
    MD and Enmos? A moderator that gave him a warning.
    Or do you believe I'm Enmos under another handle.
    Perhaps you need to come clean about what ever conspiracy you believe is afoot.

    Now, what you need to do, is stop the whinging, whining and blustering, address the issues as I have stated, and refute them if you can.
    Those issues are as follows and have not changed since I raised them with your unfortunate yet overly aggressive friend MD.

    Again to reiforce my position, which has not changed:
    [1] The laws of physics and GR do not forbid time travel either way.
    [2] At present at this level of technology, we have no way to achieve time travel and it remains in the realms of science fiction
    [3] Any sufficiently advanced civilisation, that masters spacetime manipulation or other aspects of advanced physics, may find this possible.



    Those three points are undeniable facts:
     
    Last edited: Oct 28, 2014
  10. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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    21,647


    I did direct him to that bundle of posts, but the message seems to have escaped him.

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!


    It's amazing how agendas can blinker and blind an individual to what is and isn't said.
     
  11. krash661 [MK6] transitioning scifi to reality Valued Senior Member

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    it's a result from " want to be physicist/intellect " - ism.
     
  12. Landau Roof Registered Senior Member

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    598
    Oh, I see. You thought this thread was about YOU. It isn't. All I have said about you was that your suppositions were a bit of a stretch and have no evidence to support them, i.e. advanced civilizations - ET or domestic. i even agreed with you that there 'very well could be', but you dislike people casting doubts on your fantastical theories so much you just won't see it.
    Are you trying to be funny? I speak English better than you, and it's my native language. If you don't believe me, I can go back and point out at least a half a dozen grammatical errors you have made (pure carelessness , I'm sure) since we began our discussion. You need to learn about modals. 'The difference between 'may' and 'could well be' is subtle, but it is a difference.
    I know you're not Emnos. He's cool. You're right though, he was bickering, but so were you and krash, or worse yet, you never yet have addressed MD's question.
    I do wish you'd stop repeating yourself, and with boldtype yet! Is it the heavy font that makes your facts undeniable? Your first undeniable fact is neither here nor there. That's why I compared it to belief in Bigfoot. Just because scientific laws don't forbid a thing doesn't mean it is possible. That's why I say 'it's a stretch'. Your second 'fact' is factual enough, but since you've made the game ridiculous and baseless accusations, I will say you are using this second fact as an excuse for not answering MD's question. If you can imagine advanced civilizations that can control black holes, why not imagine a back-to-the-future mobile that can get to Florida before it ever left? If you think his scenario is too far out of the realm of possibility, say so. Don't set up a wall of 'undeniable facts' so you need not admit you have no idea. I have already said several times your third undeniable fact is in fact deniable, and not a fact. It belongs under your second heading of remaining in the realm of science fiction.
     
  13. Landau Roof Registered Senior Member

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    598
    Please point out this bundle of posts. Surely it's not the three 'Yahoo' news articles we discussed earlier. I've already dismissed them as wishful thinking. It's amazing how agendas can blinker and blind an individual to what is and isn't.
     
  14. Landau Roof Registered Senior Member

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    598
    All right. I see that you are attempting an answer to the NY-Florida scenario, but I think MD means how is 'departing from that specific time line' to be carried out? Of course, you don't know because if you did you would be the father of time travel - which brings me to my supposition that this is all fantastical. The laws of physics and relativity may not rule out time travel, but they don't make it so! Am I right or wrong. Please tell me without your usual arrogance, abuse and virtual head shaking. This is a science forum, not the let's irritate krash and paddoboy's sensitivities network.
     
  15. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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    21,647

    Whinging, whining, misinterpreting to the point of out right lies, and finally trolling.
    You can have your childish one-up-manship game Landau.

    Again to reiforce my position, which has not changed:
    [1] The laws of physics and GR do not forbid time travel either way.
    [2] At present at this level of technology, we have no way to achieve time travel and it remains in the realms of science fiction
    [3] Any sufficiently advanced civilisation, that masters spacetime manipulation or other aspects of advanced physics, may find this possible. Those three points are undeniable facts:


    Have fun.
     
  16. krash661 [MK6] transitioning scifi to reality Valued Senior Member

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    2,973
    no, again, go back and read. there's an answer of that also.
    another answer is, there are a couple of ways to time travel, which i had thought i mention in this topic.
    if not let me know and i'll find it.
     
  17. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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    21,647
    Getting back on topic in this thread and away from the pathetic bullying and sidetrack......



    http://www.askamathematician.com/2011/12/q-how-can-wormholes-be-used-for-time-travel/

    To answer the original question, I don't see how time could not exist in a wormhole......Incredibly dilated according to an outside source of course, but it must exist...What is a wormhole? A deformed piece of spacetime.
    If one were to cross the EH of a BH, they would reach the Singularity in a very small but finite amount of time.
    I would say the same situation applies with a wormhole.
    I'm not sure if it could be calculated though...Even if one knew where both ends of the wormhole are, how the wormhole connects these two regions of space, would be relevant I'm sure.

    But yeah, some time must elapse I'm pretty sure for anyone to traverse through a wormhole.
     
  18. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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    Wormholes, Kerr BH's and ring singularities, alcubriere drive, and a few more.
     
  19. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    With wormholes transit is dependent on the length of time needed to cover the length of the throat. Thus you could travel 100 years in an arbitrarily short time.

    Again for a wormhole you would see time passing the same on both sides. So if you spent a week in 1914 you would return after a week had elapsed in 2014.

    No, you will age 1 week if you are there 1 week. (again assuming wormhole)
     
  20. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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    That's about the way I read it too...
     
  21. Landau Roof Registered Senior Member

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    598
    I don't think you have. Please just tell us your answers again in your next post. If your answers actually are here above, you need only cut and paste. Thank you.
     
  22. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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    That problem krash, was similar to what we had to deal with with our Creationist friend chinglu and his useless, baseless arguments in many threads against time dilation, length contraction, time travel, and SR in general.
    It was impossible for him to accept that a clock just measures time's flow.
    And we had many many pages of repetitive dribble from him claiming SR was invalid, despite
    the 100 years of irrefutable evidence showing otherwise.

    You would obviously realise that in actual fact, time travel of sorts has already been achieved, many times, with sub atomic particles called muons, in state of the art particle accelerators via time dilation effects.

    "When we are confronted by black holes, Einstein-Rosen bridges, and time dilation, we are being asked to deal with phenomena that are totally out of accord with the universe we understand -- or think we understand. We cannot visualize them - only accept them. Until someone improves upon or replaces Einstein's General theory of Relativity - and at present this seems highly improbable - there is no alternative. If rotating singularities exist, and there is increasing reason to accept that they do, then the possibility of time travel, including travel into the past, has to be accepted, however fantastic it may seem."
    http://www.umich.edu/~engtt415/science/

    Much has beed achieved over the last 100 years or so....cosmologically speaking, we are certain BH's exist, we have measured the amount that Earth warps, curves and even twists spacetime with GP-B, the CMBR, expansion of the Universe.

    With continued scientific advancement over the next 100 years, 200 years, 500 years, a 1000 years, 10,000 years!
    Yeah, I know, what IF we destroy ourselves through war, what IF volcanic eruptions and earthquakes destroy us, what IF we are hit by a giant asteroid or comet, what IF a terrible disease wipes us all out, what IF...........etc etc etc
    All possible.

    Likewise, but even more so, since the laws of physics and GR do not forbid time travel, either forward or backwards, It's logical to believe that at some distant date in the future, we may discover the secret of how to achieve it....or the possibility of some sufficiently highly advanced civilisation could also achieve the same or similar technology.
    Perhaps part of the problem with some is that after 2,000years or more of believing that this little fart arse blue orb is the center of the Universe, it's rather hard for them to move on and accept the possibility, that even today in this rather large Universe, we just maybe not at the top of the rung yet, and others elsewhere, may have progressed to type 1, 2, 3 or even 4 on the Kardashev scale.
    On that scale by the way, we have just barely reached type 1
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kardashev_scale.



     
  23. Landau Roof Registered Senior Member

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    I think you two guys (Krash and Paddo) are like me. You read about cutting edge, "high", advanced science , and you understand it, but you can't articulate it. All I am asking, and Motor Daddy was asking, is how can a car due at 12:00 arrive before that time? If you don't know, say so. Who does it serve to call us ignorant, and go on blabbing about blue orbs or giving us virtual head shakes? How do you know what is impossible for he or I to accept? You haven't told us anything yet. I even asked krash to repeat his explanation which he may or may not have given earlier, and he hasn't even done that. Meanwhile Paddoboy thinks if he uses bold or italics often enough, that will prove his point. Explain what you mean! How can a car due at 12:00 arrive before that time?

    The good news: I am not going to say another word in this thread until someone answers this question. ( A simple, "Nobody knows" will do if that is the right answer.)
     

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