How many people die as virgins?

Discussion in 'Human Science' started by Enoc, Oct 10, 2011.

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  1. KilljoyKlown Whatever Valued Senior Member

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    Sorry but the law has to draw the line somewhere. If you are unwilling to speak up and say no, you can't then after the fact claim you were raped. If you are unwilling to take some responsibility for what happens to you, the least you can do is accept the consequences.
     
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  3. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    Sure you can. If someone pushes a woman into a corner, says "keep quiet or else" and then has sex with her, that's rape - even if she never says no.

    "Consenting adults" is the standard here, and it requires consent. It does not need to be verbal but it does need to be there.
     
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  5. KilljoyKlown Whatever Valued Senior Member

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    That picture is not the scenario I talked about. I never said it was okay for a man to make a threat to keep a woman quiet. Not taking no for an answer is an attitude that can be sensed, and then the choice to let it happen is the woman’s. No threats being made by the man, and a woman not saying no verbally or physically with body language. Legally consent can be implied if there is no protest.

    I've actually had a woman tell me she wouldn't ever consider having sex with a man unless he was willing to take a risk and force the issue a bit. I told her with an attitude like that she should die a virgin. She said it was to late for that. But even not taking it to that extreme, many women are taught to play hard to get even when they want to be got. Point being it can be a muddy issue.
     
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  7. chimpkin C'mon, get happy! Registered Senior Member

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    Those two things would seem to be contradictory.

    As far as the one woman you talked to...if she was raised in a screwed-up home environment, then she may indeed like to be pressured into sex.:shrug: Or maybe that's just her??? dunno.
    It's a bad idea to globalize her particular kink, though.
     
  8. KilljoyKlown Whatever Valued Senior Member

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    I did say that was a bit extreme. But playing hard to get, is something most older men have experienced from women. I can't say I know that about the current generation of younger women though.

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  9. scheherazade Northern Horse Whisperer Valued Senior Member

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    Sex education was minimal when I was 17. The greatest 'risks' that I was aware of were pregnancy and STD's and we used contraception.

    The only 'honor' under consideration was personal status, which I foolishly thought was addressed by our betrothal. Sex was not considered as high risk then as it is perceived to be now.

    We used two forms of barrier protection, which were considered safe at that time. Beyond the use of double protection, I do not recall being greatly concerned about pregnancy.

    Youth is historically short-sighted, for the most part, and I plead inexperience and a lack of available education that precluded my giving thought to the kind of questions you are raising.

    At seventeen, I had very strong sexual urges, which I largely repressed because they conflicted with my religious teachings of that time.

    As I examined human nature more closely, I also began to question my religious indoctrination, and found that it did not satisfy my questions, hence I abandoned it.

    I am a creature of nature. I accept responsibility for my actions.

    So be it.

    If any god lays claim to me, then they must be held accountable for my creation.
     
  10. scheherazade Northern Horse Whisperer Valued Senior Member

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    Speaking as a woman, I would suggest that such determination on the part of any man may not qualify as 'rape', yet it would still be under duress from such dogged persistence, and society has sadly conditioned many women to yield rather than risk more serious injury.

    I recall one occasion where my ride home decided to take a detour out of town, with the obvious intent of pursuing his interests. In a small town, we were friends, but I had certainly never knowingly given him any signs of encouragement.

    I insisted he stop the car and I walked home three miles in sandals on gravel, and got some nasty blisters out of the adventure. Three miles that he had driven in the opposite direction of my destination, I might add, with no explanation offered when I asked where we were going.

    Regarding the matter of a person who falsely accuses another of a sexual crime, I would agree that such person deserves to be punished to the full extent of the law. Our society attaches a powerful stigma to sexual assault and even the perception of such a deed can be damaging or ruinous to an individual.
     
  11. wynn ˙ Valued Senior Member

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    Or: Pleasure should not come at the cost of risking one's health and one's life.
    I have found pleasures that are safer, more readily available and more rewarding than non-procreative sex.


    Or: Some risks are not worth taking.


    Or: Proximity does not equal intimacy.


    Or: Not everyone is the same, and people should not have to force themselves into a mould that currently appears to be popular.
     
  12. wynn ˙ Valued Senior Member

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    I find this to be a strange idea of what "human nature" or "nature" is about. Very limiting.

    :shrug:
     
  13. scheherazade Northern Horse Whisperer Valued Senior Member

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    Interesting comment.

    As I find nature to be limitless when contemplated from the platform of my own biology, to accept that I am a creature of nature is to widen my base of support in my quest to understand that which I am a part of.

    I accept that I have responsibility for my own conduct, and only my own conduct.

    In matters of religion, I presently have none. Human nature is incredibly diverse, and I find it very interesting. That you perceive it to be limiting is not a perspective that I share. I accept my own limitations and challenge them regularly.

    Thank you for your questions and comments.
     
  14. wynn ˙ Valued Senior Member

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    I said that I find your idea about what "human nature" or "nature" is about, to be strange, very limiting.
    Not that I find "human nature" or "nature" limiting.
     
  15. scheherazade Northern Horse Whisperer Valued Senior Member

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    With all due respect, you have only your own perception and assumptions about what my ideas may be.

    It can be rather difficult to express ones ideas as words and have them be interpreted by another in the identical manner.

    I would go so far as to hypothesize that such is an improbable task, at best.

    I state my experiences to the best of my ability. They connect on some levels with some people and not at all with others. Likewise, I experience the same when I read the words of others.

    I do not interpret this to mean that they have a limiting perspective, only that their experiences and understanding of them may be considerably different than mine. :shrug:

    Time to take my limiting perspective to bed. I seldom dream and I have experienced several concussions in my life, so perhaps I have incurred some injury to my comprehension mechanism. It's not a thing that I can change, so it's not a matter worth concerning myself about.

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    Good night, wynn.
     
  16. KilljoyKlown Whatever Valued Senior Member

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    I agree with you, but you have to know it's not easy to be a virgin male in high school.

    He wanted to be friends with benefits, and caught you way off gaurd. It's a good thing you didn't have to take a boat ride home.

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    Very hard on any future friendship.

    Yeah! Sometimes they lose custody, get fired, get sued and maybe go to jail. But then who expects life to be fair?
     
  17. wynn ˙ Valued Senior Member

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    Then where are we disagreeing?

    I said:

    I said that I find your idea about what "human nature" or "nature" is about, to be strange, very limiting.
    Not that I find "human nature" or "nature" limiting.
     
  18. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    Legally that's just not true. If someone gets a woman so drunk she doesn't know what's going on, then has sex with her - that's rape. She doesn't need to make a verbal or physical protest.

    That's a case where both sides have to be very clear about what they want and about their limits.

    Definitely agreed there. Communication is key to avoiding problems.
     
  19. elte Valued Senior Member

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    Each day passing is one more day toward reaching the situation mentioned in the thread title. The virgin part I actually like, it is the death part that I don't like.
     
  20. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    Almost all pleasure does. So a more accurate statement might be that "the risks should be weighed."

    Great! While I am sure others would disagree with your tradeoffs, they are your tradeoffs, and thus are valid for you.

    An excellent observation - one that is as valid for others as it is for you.
     
  21. wynn ˙ Valued Senior Member

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    Lol. If only you would pay others that respect.

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  22. KilljoyKlown Whatever Valued Senior Member

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    When was the last time someone other than you, got you drunk? When was the last time someone other than the drunk driver got prosecuted for driving drunk. Sorry but your getting drunk is not the same as being deliberately drugged. When it's your choice to drink and get drunk, most juries won't be very sympathetic to your claim.
     
  23. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    Figuratively? About a year ago. Terry kept bringing me very rare beers and telling me I should drink them.

    Literally? Only three or four times in high school and college; people gave me drinks that they told me were low in alcohol (but weren't.)

    About two months ago, here in San Diego. A server at a bar was prosecuted for serving a very drunk customer then helping them out to their car. When I work at events that serve alcohol they make it very clear that we can be prosecuted if someone drunk gets another drink from one of us, then drives home and gets in a wreck.

    Many are. A man who has sex with a woman so drunk she cannot consent is generally considered a rapist - especially if he had a hand in getting her drunk. And yes, a great many court cases substantiate this.
     
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