How many people die as virgins?

Discussion in 'Human Science' started by Enoc, Oct 10, 2011.

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  1. chimpkin C'mon, get happy! Registered Senior Member


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    I believe you too will get to do the horizontal hokey-pokey...

    Women like to be listened to when they talk.
    Listening is active.
    It may be a skill you need to learn.

    Then once you learn that, throw in good things that you genuinely notice about her in the course of conversation.
    This will take practice.

    It's not magic, you have to practice and occasionally fall on your face.

    If you're a gay woman, process is similar, but seems to be generally slanted towards coupling hard and fast...the joke being that the second date for lesbians involves renting a U-haul.:

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    Our courtship involved me dropping a ratchet on my face while working underneath her pickup and then getting a plastic half-tooth put on.

    Not exactly sure of the gay male protocol...think it depends on whether "laid" or "partner" is your goal. "Laid" seems to be easier for gay men, "partner" more of a challenge. Which is great fun when you're 20...and may become a real drag at some point in the future.
    All that just from outside casual observation of friends, not data...will data rummage on request.

    BTW, Darksie...You're literal. Aspies are like that.
    I will throw this in...women think and talk in need to ask "what do you mean by that?" fairly often.

    Too, when a woman asks "Does this make me look fat?" You say, "No, you're gorgeous....yes, of course I mean that, honestly!" (peck on cheek)
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2011
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  3. wynn ˙ Valued Senior Member

    One of the things that science studies is personal choice. As such, personal choice is not above science, but is merely one of its subjects.

    We cannot talk about the scientific findings about one subject area (such as sex), but ignore scientific findings from other areas (such as what makes for "personal choice" - issues of free will, genetic predispositions, environmental effects on cognition etc. etc.).

    Nor should we ignore the nature of scientific work as such. We must question whether the studied populations are represenative, whether the study criteria are relevant.

    A mistake many people make is that they treat science as if it would be a source of relevant (or even normative or obligatory) advice in particular cases.

    E.g. "Science found that eating bananas is good for your health. If you don't eat them, that is your personal choice, but you will suffer the negative consequences of not eating them."
    Forgetting to consider that the person who is being given this advice may be allergic to bananas.

    Except that science does not give definitive answers to an issue (given that it often relies on empiry (which is never conclusive) and statistical averages (which are progressively influenced by people's awareness of them, and thus not objective), nor does it give reliable instruction for each person's individual case and circumstance.

    For example, there may be scientific findings that exercise is good for one's wellbeing.
    But for a particular person, in their particular situation, what the kind of exercise would be that would lead to improvement in one's wellbeing, that is another matter that science cannot predict well, and sometimes, not at all.

    The science of human behavior and psychology merely describes a particular population.
    But it cannot reliably give instructions about how to achieve the state of that population.
    The scope of behaviorist and psychological prediction is limited.

    Not at all. Everything everyone does in some way or other affects everyone else.

    I haven't stated much about my position on sex at all in this thread - only hinted at in post 26.
    I merely pointed out some facts and asked some questions.
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  5. wynn ˙ Valued Senior Member

    I think a much more detailed analysis of this should be possible.

    For example:

    "I find men that are tall, dark and handsome and only a few years older than myself, to be very much attractive. I must act on this feeling of attraction, or I will experience an anxiety that I could not live with."

    "People with whom I am at church are all reliable and trustworthy."

    "People who are very good with horses are suitable partners for sex (and marriage)."

    "If a man reciprocates my feelings, I must do everything he wants."

    "I must follow my urges or I will experience unbearable anxiety."

    "I believe that at some point, one must marry, or one will be unhappy. Marrying is crucial to my happiness."

    "If adults seemingly approve of my intentions, I should act on those intentions."

    "I believe it is reasonable to test a person before marrying them."

    - - -

    These are just some examples of some details of a person's motivations for sex.
    I think we should also look into the full cognitive implications of esp. thoughts and feelings of anxiety (e.g. in relation to desiring sex and the threat of not having it).
    Someone mentioned earlier that (non-procreative) sex is an act of self-defense, I'd like to see how they meant that.

    I think this would provide possible answers to the OP's inquiry as to how come some people do not engage in (non-procreative) sex.
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  7. billvon Valued Senior Member

    Agreed, and that was my point. "A scientific study said X" does not devolve to "therefore I must do X."

    OK let's talk bananas!

    That's an accurate statement. The person then may decide "the negative consequences of eating them are worse so I won't." (Or even "I don't want to eat them so I won't.") Both are valid.

    Science gives quite reliable answers on some issues. Science can, for example, predict the orbit of a new asteroid down to incredibly small tolerances, and can give very accurate odds for medical procedures, treatments etc. It can very easily answer the question "what can happen if I choose X and what are the odds?" It cannot answer "should I choose X?"

    Of course. All it can say is "for most people exercise does X Y and Z." If you give the process more information it can make a more accurate recommendation for YOU - "you have heart disease therefore X and Y are dangerous but Z is not." But again the final decision is up to you.

    Yes. But YOU are making that decision. And for the issues we are discussing here (exercise, sex) then your opinion is the only one that should influence your actions.

    That being said, there are a great many people out there whose actions are influenced (sometimes determined) by one's parents, boyfriend, other friends etc. But in all cases the final decision is up to the person. As Neal Peart once said, "if you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice."
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2011
  8. Nasor Valued Senior Member

    According to this study:

    1.5% of men and 0.8% of women between the ages of 40-44 have never had vaginal intercourse. 0.3% of men and 0.3% of women between the ages of 40-44 report having had oral or anal sex, but not vaginal, so if you don't count those people as virgins, the percentage of virgins drops to 1.2% for men and 0.5% for women.

    40-44 was the oldest age bracket they surveyed in the study, but the percentage of virgins steadily decreased with increasing age, so presumably if you surveyed people 45 and older the percentage of virgins would be even smaller.
  9. KilljoyKlown Whatever Valued Senior Member

    Good info to know, but the OP was how many people die as virgins. Lot's of people die before age 40. But we could ask, how many people die of old age as virgins?

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  10. Enoc Registered Senior Member

    I have the feeling that I would die an old-age virgin. I had zero luck so far of finding a girlfriend or having sex and I don't think that my chances are that great of ever finding a girlfriend in the future.

    I don't want to go to a sex worker because I want a woman to WANT to have sex with me and not because she is paid to have sex with me.

    So I think you could pretty much add me to the 1% of old-age virgins.
  11. KilljoyKlown Whatever Valued Senior Member

    How old are you anyway? I'm betting you have a few good years left to work on your problem. Why do you think you will never have a girlfriend? I could make up a long list of problems, but it would be better if you could just fill us in a bit more than you have. Anyway if your not gay, there are lot's of ways to find a girlfriend.
  12. pluto2 Registered Senior Member

    Last edited: Nov 21, 2011
  13. wynn ˙ Valued Senior Member

    Why would that be sad?
  14. KilljoyKlown Whatever Valued Senior Member

    The Love Forum

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    That was good. What country are you talking about? Not having a girlfriend or being gay, doesn't mean no sex. Or do you consider getting yourself off as no sex? I will say that I believe every guy should try having a girlfriend at least once in his life and if they are lucky maybe that will be enough. As for that 97 year old virgin, well it helps if you aren't hiding from the women if you want one to find you.
  15. billvon Valued Senior Member

    Not to point out the very obvious, but homosexuals do often have sex. I don't think most of them consider that a sad situation.
  16. kwhilborn Banned Banned

    @ pluto2,
    Avoiding a gf for 97 years is probably why he lived so long.
  17. KilljoyKlown Whatever Valued Senior Member

    There have been studies that show married men live longer. But, I think you might have something there.
  18. Robittybob1 Banned Banned

    Is this evolution in motion?

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  19. scheherazade Northern Horse Whisperer Valued Senior Member

    The single ladies in these parts refer to anyone who has declined a sexual partner for over a year to be a 'born again virgin'.

    I realize that such are not the topic of this thread, but wanted to throw it in as the comment reflects some of our attitudes toward sex, which differ between cultures and genders.

    As a teenager, I was very conflicted on the topic of sex, as I had been raised as Christian to that point. At the age of seventeen, hormones and desire were very distracting and physically uncomfortable. The gentleman who was my first partner was also a practicing Christian, yet this did not preclude him from yielding to the temptations of myself and others.

    There are some who are of the belief that sex is only for procreation. I respect their belief, though it is not mine.

    Making babies was not on my mind at all at the time. Sex was a powerful hormonal urge and I was curious to find a way to master the distraction of it.

    My early experience with sex was a huge disappointment, as it left me even more frustrated. With the hindsight of greater understanding, I now know that the gentleman was a 'preemie.'

    The universe was kind in later partners, though. My first and my present husband were/are honorable and compassionate and dare I say, tantric.

    Sexual attraction and/or opportunity may not come to every person. For whatever reason that some people remain virgins, I respect that it is their choice, or non-choice in the matter.

    For any that would force their physical attentions on another, no punishment is harsh enough, in my opinion.
  20. wynn ˙ Valued Senior Member

    So how did you convince yourself that it is worth it to risk your health and even your life for the sake of sex?

    What is honorable in risking your health and even your life for the sake of pleasure?

    I am refering to the risks of the use of hormonal contraceptives, failed contraception and the resulting unwanted pregnancy, abortions or unwanted children.
  21. KilljoyKlown Whatever Valued Senior Member

    I have to agree with that sentiment, however it's also, so easy for a woman to yell rape and ruin a mans life, when there was no rape. Personally I would like to see penalties for false accusations to be the same as those for the actual rape, would have been. After all a ruined life is a ruined life regardless of how it happens.

    What about this scenario? A determined man who is not going to take no for an answer. The woman can plainly see this. She wasn't planning on having sex, but in the interest of not provoking trouble, she doesn't say NO.

    I wouldn't call this consensual sex, but I wouldn't call it rape either, and just maybe some poor boy is not virgin anymore.

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  22. billvon Valued Senior Member

    Well, you could apply basic scientific principles; a much more detailed analysis of these sentiments should be possible. Often people's underlying motivations are different than those they express.

    For example:

    Possible underlying motivation: I am unable to experience pleasure and cannot see any justification in trying.

    Possible underlying motivation: I am terrified of risk, and cannot make a risk vs reward tradeoff.

    Possible underlying motivation: I fear intimacy and cannot understand why others welcome it.

    Possible underlying motivation: I do not like people who are different from me.
  23. chimpkin C'mon, get happy! Registered Senior Member

    I would...why do you think a yes is implicit, but "no" has to be said aloud? Why is it the woman's job to say " stop?" Can men really not tell the difference between willingness to have sex and someone lying there frozen in fear? Maybe not.
    A number of women get too frozen to say or do anything. What happens still messes them up for a long time afterward.
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