How many children will have to die for you to realize that our society has a problem?

Your wrong Xev. I have seen No evidance (and Bush has never claimed) that you were atacked by the taliban. He atacked them because they wouldn't extidite the aleged (and yes bin ladan is still intitled to pursumption of inocents) terriost.

What is there crime by the way and if it didn't happen in the US then how can you charge someone with it?

If a crime happens in Australia then WE proicute or not based on OUR laws

You can't come in latter and say YOU want the criminal and change them in the US (which you HAVEN'T done, anyway) and invade if the courts decide not to exstidite


Im sorry for everyone who lost someone but thats just wrong

You have to make up your minds

Either there charged and protected as alleged criminals or there just POW's

 

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Okay Asgaurd, let me put it to you this way.

I, in this situation, could care less about what is morally fair.

I, in this like most situations, care about what is best for the overwhelming majority.

The overwhelming majority of people benefit from the destruction of the Taliban.

 

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Yes Tyler.

You know who is keeping UbL from attacking Sydney, Asguard?

Usama Bin Ladin attacked us. In protecting him, and allowing him to plan his attacks under their protection, the Taliban allied themselves with him. They, in effect, attacked us.

The Taliban and Al Queda fighter's? Acessory to the murder of over 5000 people, I suppose. Haven't given it much thought.

Australia has yet to kill 5000 of our people, under the protection of your government.

Maybe. Maybe not. I don't really care. I want to be safe. I want my countrymen to be safe. I want my family to be safe. I'm more or less satisfied that the detainees are being treated well.

I will shed no tears if their detention is in a gray area re:international law. International law is tangled anyway.

 

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For starters WHY ARE WE IN HUMAN SCIENCE?

But to my real point

I know i can look at this more philosophicaly than someone how was there.

But JUSTICE MUST ALWAYS BE IMPARTIAL

As i said im sorry for everyone of those familys who died but i would be more angry if someone raped and murded my sister. That is beacuse its personal. This is a fact with EVERY court case and is the reason victoms must stay out of justic (i belive that now, have always belived it and hopfully can belive it if something DID happen)

There is a reason for pursuption of inocence

Now im going to ask something i don't actully belive (i don't buy into all the conspericy theorys)

But have you seen the evidance of there guilt?
Could the goverment have needed an enermy to lump the blame on and picked one at random? maybe they created some evidance to point to osama and now everyone associated with that organisation is automatically guilty, right?

Well im a member of the catholic church so if a cardanal in another country dose soemthing im guilty of it right? (thats what your saying)

The crime DID take place in the US and they SHOULD face US COURT justice with ALL the protections in place, if only to show the world how better than them you are and that no matter what the crime, the constitution (that the presidant swore to uphold) is apsolute

 

Tyler

The overwelming mejority of people benifited from the destruction of the Nazis to but they still had to follow the rules

You will NEVER convince me that Osam is worse than the Natzies and it will just lower my opinion of you if you try

It would be an INSULT to everyone who was killed by them, to everyone who faced the Nazi doctors.

There are worse things than dieing. Ask the Australian POW's from WW2 who were captured by the Japaniese

 

The 9/11 tragedy is not the first nor the second incident of death and destruction by Bin Ladin. There have been many other incidents with his name on them and did not occur within the boundries of the US. Technically, the embassy and the Marine barracks were on US soil, too. The second occurrance of attack on the World Trade Center was the last straw. I think that there was patience enough shown.

I will not argee that the Geneva Convention rules were broke. But if they were, in this case I will not be the bleeding heart over their detainment. They were eager enough to celebrate the destruction of the WTC. I am eager enough to want them to see the result of that justice after whatever info can be gleaned from them.

 

I still don't see a conviction

You can't call him a criminal untill a COURT gives him the title

You are undemining your OWN justice system

Pursumtion of innocence exstends to EVERYONE

 

Look at it this way

do you sitting nicly in your homes want to be acused of terriosm

No theres a new law here (don't know if its inacted or if they WANT to pass it) that says anyone accused of terriosim must prove there inocence. This is because the goverment felt it was to hard the other way around.

Now piture this

You are down the street doing your shoping.
Say its your kids birthday so you are buying sparklers and matches and stuff. Maybe you are having a BBQ so you are buying lighters and stuff. Whatever the reason while you are buying it you meet someone nice and you talk to them. Say hello and stuff. It turns out ASIO wants this man for terriosim and they arest you to thinking you are involved

Now they can interigate you for 48 hours (i think its that long) without legle represtation and then if they don't like your answers they can throw you in jail for 5 years

So you go out to get last minute suplies for your childs party and you dissapear for the next 5 years

Is this FAIR and JUST

 

I must agree that UBL is not yet a legal criminal, if you know what I mean. I'm unaware of any court convictions against him. However, if international law or USA law allows that there is enough evidence for him to be arrested to face trial, then so be it.

Personally, though, if someone I loved had died in all that, and if I saw enough evidence to link UBL to the act but not enough to get him into court, I might simply go find him and stick a knife in his ribs. If he could be found that is.

 

Adam id feel that way if anyone i loved was killed by ANYONE. Hopefully i wouldn't act on the feeling though

B\W did you read my last post?
i would be interested in your responce to it

 

Asguard

I hate ASIO's and ASIS's new powers. They suck in an enormous and truly ugly way. I emailed the PM's office telling the weiner's people how much those new powers suck. I've posted info about it on heaps of message boards, and told many people. A lawyer I know wents nuts when he heard about it, and he went straight out to see if it was legal. I don't know what he found yet. A lot of people are worried about the powers of ASIO and such agencies.

 

I don't agree with the war because i don't think it will change anything even if you DO catch Osama but as to the prisoners thats clear.

CHOSE NOW

Charge them and give them FULL acess to the legle system OR give them the FULL protection of POW's

I leave that destion up to you but its one or the other

 

I think I agree that we will have to agree to disagree on this one.

You're at the wrong level to effect change. We are merely 1 member each of a democratic society with one vote only, expressing our opinions. As such I have not the power to bring about either choice. At the same time, I am not beating the drum for the detainees either. Say what you will, I for one, just can not muster up the sympathy for them. Give me another situtation with another result and the feeling may well be different.

 

"I don't agree with the war because i don't think it will change anything even if you DO catch Osama but as to the prisoners thats clear."

Oh yeah. You're right. The war has been useless. I mean, it's not like we helped the citizens of afghanistan. Right? I mean, it's not like it's a good thing that their women can walk the streets, right?

 

And I haven't noticed any more planes flying into buildings - then again, if we haven't destroyed Al Queda before the war is over - eternal vigilence.

Asguard:

Okay. We'll have to agree to disagree. Nice debate though, thanks Asguard.

 

I made myself clear...

 

Yes, you made it quite clear that you don't know an inch of history.

One of the things Hitler hated about hte Jews was the fact that they had high paying jobs.

He didn't kill them to get their money. Mainly because he didn't personally take their money to finance the war.

 

Tyler,

No... YOU proved yourself ignorant on history...:bugeye:

Oh REally professor Tyler...?

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:bugeye:

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Yeah... that's why he took the money of the Jews and there are still many that "disappeard"... :bugeye:

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Love,
Nelson

 

Xev: Thank you, now vote for me in the"Summer" debate

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Wet1: i was talking a little broader than just YOU, or everyone here even. I ment your country

Tyler: Yes maybe THIS week things are a little better in Afgaistan (i will reserve judgment on wether thats a REAL change) but say you catch him

Being the US you will try and execute him

He becomes a hero in the eyes of his cohorts and i can GARENTE they will strike again in retaliation

 

Truthseeker

No... YOU proved yourself ignorant on history...

No, YOU did. No, YOU did. No, YOU did...

You're such a child.

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