How is Schizophrenia related to Lucid Dreaming?

Discussion in 'Human Science' started by frozt, Oct 7, 2006.

  1. frozt Registered Member

    Messages:
    6
    I have been trying to search the internet.

    Now I am asking you bright stars here at SF.

    How is some "disorders" related to Lucid Dreaming?
    Are schizophrenic people often lucid dreamers?

    What are your thougts about it?
     
  2. Theoryofrelativity Banned Banned

    Messages:
    5,595
    you may find this helpful:

    http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Lucid_Dreaming:_Introduction

    "Dissociation
    Lucid dreaming may weaken the borders between waking and dreaming, the conscious and subconscious mind, reality and fantasy. This might lead to problems of a dissociative nature. Probably the most common form of dissociation involves having problems distinguishing your waking memories from dream memories. Everyone who recalls at least one dream will have to sort out their dreams from reality in the morning. This can really be a problem for those who have previously had zero recall and, due to lucid dreaming, have had a major uptick in recall. Now, suddenly, they have all these excess, illogical memories to sort out. This is unlikely to be a major problem, but may be a big annoyance. An example is when you have actually misplaced an item, and "find it" in a dream. If you cannot distinguish dream from reality you will now think you know where that item is, perhaps even placed it where you felt sure to find it later, but when you awake it will not be there.

    However, there are signs that you should watch for that indicate a bigger problem may be developing. Lucid dreaming in itself should not cause these to appear in a waking state:

    Ability to ignore extreme pain or what would normally cause extreme pain
    Absorption in a computer game, television program or movie
    Remembering the past so vividly one seems to be reliving it
    Finding evidence of having done things one can’t remember doing
    Not remembering important events in one’s life
    Being in a familiar place but finding it unfamiliar
    Seeing oneself as if looking at another person
    Other people and objects do not seem real
    Looking at the world through a fog or haze
    Not recognizing friends or family members
    Finding unfamiliar things among one’s belongings
    Finding oneself in a place but unaware of how one got there
    Finding oneself dressed in clothes one doesn’t remember putting on
    If this has happened, and there is no other cause (e.g. drugs), take a break from lucid dreaming for a while. In fact, take a break from anything fictional for a while, at least until symptoms stop. In addition, you may consider avoiding experimentation with lucid dreaming if you have some form of schizophrenia."

    It does not suggest you lucid dream more if schizophrenic, but you should perhaps avoid it if you are!

    meanwhile this link is more apt re your question:

    http://www.susanblackmore.co.uk/Articles/JNMD86.htm

    "
    Discussion

    Superficially the results seem to show that the schizophrenics have far more OBEs than do control subjects and that those who have OBEs also suffer from more perceptual distortions and more of the symptoms of schizophrenia. However, when the OBEs are distinguished on the basis of the descriptions given, into typical OBEs, in which the person seems to leave the body, and pseudo-OBEs, which include all sorts of other experiences, then these differences disappear It seems that the schizophrenics do not have significantly more OBEs than do control subjects and that having OBEs is not related to either perceptual distortions or to the symptoms of schizophrenia This confirms a previous finding in which no relationship was found between having OBEs and perceptual distortions in a group of students (Blackmore and Harris, 1983).

    Some problems remain concerning the selection of subjects. The subjects in the schizophrenic group were self-selected (although not for having OBEs, of course) and those in the control group were more nearly random Also the schizophrenics were asked about their OBEs on two separate occasions and the control group on only one. This might produce spurious between-group differences that have nothing to do with schizophrenia. The fact that the proportion of typical OBEs was the same in both groups might imply that any such effect was minimal. Nevertheless, further research without these problems is obviously warranted.

    Conclusion

    On the basis of the findings reported here, we may answer our original questions very simply. OBEs do not seem to be pathological. People who experience them may fear that they are "going crazy" but in fact normal control subjects experience just as many typical OBEs as schizophrenics do. Also, among schizophrenics, those who report more symptoms are no more likely to have typical OBEs. There seems to be no basis for considering the appearance of OBEs as an indication of pathology or as a symptom of schizophrenia "
     
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2006
  3. river-wind Valued Senior Member

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    2,671
  4. TREELAW45 Registered Senior Member

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    61
    I have many of the traits and inflictions you desire to know about. Ask me if you want. But in general I think that my concious mind and my subconcious mind are not as far apoart as most people. While concious I can meditate and be registered as if sleeping and while sleeping I walk and talk, and eat in my sleep. Have even got in a fight in my sleep. I've awoke in my sleep and am unable to move. And of course the lucid dreaming and reading a story and not knowing I'm reading but living the story. Of coarse I have sleep apnia.
     
  5. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    14,467
    Got to be careful about the use of the label schizophrenia....I often wonder whether it can be used as a diagnosis or only as sympton leading to a diagnosis.

    A bit like talking about paranoia, a very subjective thing and very different to say talking about lymphatic cancer or other more provable and more objective type illnesses. The cancer can be deternmined by test and x-rays. Where as schizophrenia can in the main only be detected by a socially based criteria or model. [ I do know of various MRI and other trials happening but these are not conclusive as yet...]

    So when you ask is lucid dreaming somehow associated with schizophrenia you are demonstrating how you have been caught up in the popular myth surrounding this condition or behavour or mind set, of culture, or belief system of that which is "deemed" to be schizophrenia.

    Many "normal " persons experience lucid dreaming and possibly it is more frequent when a person is more desparate in the search for answers to their suffering, so I would hazzard a guess and say that lucid dreaming is more about suffering and seeking relief from that suffering than any particular "disorder".

    The word suffering is used broadly here and can be intellectual, emotional , physical or combinations and all toegether. The mere act of being alive is suffering in this context.
     
  6. Wormsworth Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    31
    Drugs effect lucid dreaming

    From personal experience, I have found that lucid dreaming is far more successful when wearing a nicotine patch to bed. I'm not advising anyone to try this, but it was true for me.

    I had tried lucid dreaming techniques in the past, with some/sporadic success. However, when using the patch (for other reasons) I had many intensely vivid dreams. Some of which, lucidity was achieved.

    I'm suggesting that drugs can have an effect on the number of lucid dreams achieved. Schizophrenic people may be prescibed drugs which will change the percentage of lucid dreams.

    So in any study the effect of any medication would have to be taken into account.

    Also note: I found it very difficult to fall asleep while wearing the patch the first few times. Racing images and nausea were also apparent. Be aware that the nic patch may not be safe to wear while sleeping.
     
  7. spidergoat nameless monster Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    46,999
    In my experience, schizophrenic people tend to have sleep problems, they stay up for a long time, and don't sleep well when they do. I have never heard of lucid dreaming being linked to schizophrenia.
     
  8. CANGAS Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,613

    We do not know. We often have realistic dreams, but not what some call "lucid". And of course we are not schiz whatever. Neither one of us.
     
  9. TREELAW45 Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    61
    Lucid dreaming is when I can fly, which is only when I can build up speed, much like a bird has too. Usoally I can rederect the dream completely. I awaken in the dream and control it. I enjoy as I do, like marrying a princess and all the kings and heads of state are present with gifts. It can be beautiful. But I know I'm dreaming, it's not real, but I try to enjoy it. It's not a bad thing, and flying has always been cool and still is.
     

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