How inevitable is socialism?

With the advent of increasingly complex automation technologies and perhaps AI, how long will we be able to keep up our American middle-class working force?

Unskilled labor jobs are decreasing rapidly. More and more people lack health insurance. Cheap retail jobs are increasing, but tech jobs are being outsourced, manufacturing jobs are long gone, and small businesses are being eaten up by big businesses(Wal-Mart). It almost seems like the only middle-class jobs that are going to be left will require a graduate degree. The medical profession and middle business management jobs.

I don't know the exact statistics, but I get these ideas partly from The Futurist , partly from a book by Rifkin called The End of Work , and partly from my own perception of how things are going.

It seems like high school graduates these days can't manage without a college degree these days. There's a huge flood of people with bachelor's degrees, looking for work. They don't want to live poor, in the retail business. Do we have an obligation to help the people who don't fit into the labor force? When should we start living up to that occupation? Why is that despite the hugely increased productivity in developed nations(mainly the US), we simply allow corporate CEOs to pull higher and higher salaries in the competitive bid for "talent" and allow poor people to wallow in poverty?

*mutters about his redundant poll*

 

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Poor people can allways enlist in the usa army, the way it looks, with the coming resource wars, the army is can use all the fodder it can get...

And there will be a big demand for priests and religious judges to their part of crowd control at home....

Better start believing now!

 

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How could you possibly think that the US would become Socialist at ANY time? What a load of BS. I've said it before, and I'll say it again: Capitalism and greedy entrepreneuers are what drives this country. Oh, and the only way we would become Socialist is if those Liberals (or, in my mind, loser left-siders and practically Communists themselves) control the government, which we all know is the exact opposite of what's actually happening. Just look at November's election results. Socialism will NEVER go through in this country. Email me if you disagree.

 

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http://www.whitehouse.gov/history/presidents/fr32.html

I should have offered up another URL

 

As usual, we are being offered an either / or proposition. Human systems can never be ideologically pure, nor should they be. The only thing that works, that preserves liberty with a sense that all people can get at least some of what they want, is a balanced, mixed ideology.

Is unrestrained capitalism bad? Yes. Is the purest socialism bad? Yes. Communism? Marxism? Feudalism? Yes, yes, yes. Secularism? Fundamentalism? A blend is what works. It's when ANY one ideology gains an ascendancy that people suffer.

 

Bush nominee to the D.C. Court of Appeals Janice Brown on the rise of socialism in America:

Full text: "A Whiter Shade of Pale": Sense and Nonsense — The Pursuit of Perfection in Law and Politics

 

Like always, a radical entity (US capitalism) provokes a radical reaction (socialism). The eventual result is something lying in between....
(Marx, anyone?)

If you look at Western-Europe for a second (like Belgium, where I live) you should notice that there are countries where there is a very mild form of capitalism.
Here, retirement funds is organized by the state. Unemployed people get money from the state (they have to proof they are actually looking for a job of course), you get paid while you are ill or when homeless or something, the rich have to pay much more taxes than the poor, .... while still remaining relatively fair (balance: work provided - wage). There are no real poor people in Belgium.

Isn't that like it should be everywhere.

 

If the USA has any sense it will NEVER go "socialist". We here in the UK have a socialist government and what a balls up it is. not only do they line their own pockets and tell us blatant lies, then they expect us to believe everything is rosy!!!!

Political Correctness is a nasty tasting byproduct of this pathetic solcialist government of ours. Things like Santa being banned in a city; christian symbols removed from Xmas decorations in order not to offend someone; words and books that we are not allowed to utter or read, added to every day.

Do me a favour America, Do not go socialist, give me something to hang on to HELP!!!!!

 

How could you possibly think that the US would become Socialist at ANY time

Shortage of resources may change your worldview quite a lot. Also, Americans are brainwashed by corporate propaganda machines big time to accept their lot and to blame only themselves. Plutocracy brainwashing rules. However, if 80-90% of the wealth (things go that way) will be concentrated in the hands of few, no propaganda will be able to hold lower 90% in check. Let's wait and see.

 

Political Correctness is a nasty tasting byproduct of this pathetic solcialist government of ours.
There is plenty of "correctness in the "non socialist" USA. But you are correct, if people remove themselves from politics (for 4 years between elections) politicians will use the opportunity. big problem is that people want to entrust governance to the "ideal" government, which does not exist. Any government should feel people's (a.k.a. mouthpiece of the collective greed) pressure at any time.

 

Garet Garrett (1938): The Revolution Was

When the FDR court ruled Congress could pass a law which fined a farmer for growing grain on his own land for his own use, the liberty Americans knew for over 150 years was dead.

 

Interesting read.

 

I didn't vote, kuz none of the options suited what I believe.

I don't think we'll become socialist within 20 years's time. The republicans are holding us back from this. Perhaps near the end of my lifetime, in the 2050's, 60's or 70's, will the country be on the verge of socialism.

I think it is a gradual change, and one we are in right now. Slowly, we are granting more rights to certain groups of people. Nearly everyone is equal under the law.

I agree to an extent. What I believe will work is a society whose civil rights match those of socialism. Everyone must be truly equal under the law, in my opinion. As to the economy, I haven't developed my opinions concerning it. But I have a feeling a democratic system would be good economically.

 

FDR wasn't a socialist, he merely provided reforms that were needed at the time. The reason why he wanted to limit farmers' production was because they overproduced. Overproduction caused farmers' problems for decades before the Great Depression. And what, labor reforms that at last provided more livable conditions for workers were a bad thing?

At any rate, socialism can't come in 20 years, that would be way too early. Try 100 years or more.

 

I would go for a society whose civil rights match those enumerated in the UN Declaration (http://www.un.org/Overview/rights.html). If these rights are to be truly guaranteed for all people, then economic, environmental and social justice would inevitably follow.

 

The USA won't, it will self-destruct first - and in its death spasms will try to take as much of the world as possible with it - like an angry little child throwing a temper-tantrum.

Incidentally, for the cognitively challenged - I'm NOT saying that everybody in the USA is going to die. Simply that the government and infrastructure, as it exists now, will crumble. One could hope that Americans would band together and make the best of it. However, since the average household in the USA is armed and we are the most internally violent industrialized nation in history -- I fear that a more terrifying Mad Max style era could follow our economic/political collapse.

 

We could rewrite that as:
And if you don't go along with the program in America, McCarthy blacklists you and threatens you with prison.


America's already mildly socialist. Other than a colossal military budget, most of our taxes go to social security.

te_jen pointed out that this is not a dichotomic case, and it would be detrimental to make it one. Pure socialism or pure capitalism would only marginalize more people, and cause greater class inequity. Both would also limit, rather than advance, personal freedoms.

I'm not sure I see the connection, nor do I see the principles and values of the current administration acting on them. For instance, shouldn't Bush be for gay marriage, rather than against it? It is, after all not the governments place to intervene. Shouldn't republicans be against the FAA and not care about Jackson's nipple? Goverment intervention can only lead to debauchery and depravity.

I read the article, and all it did was set up a false dichotomy between totaltarian socialism and famous people saying it was bad. What the essay does not mention is the industrial revolution that occured after the constitution was written, and subsequent population explosion.
We all know that totaltarian anything doesn't work. However, mild socialism is necessary to keep the masses content. If we don't take care of our own who have been bit by the capitalist dog, do you think they will thank capitalism?

 

Not sure how I missed this thread before, but...

America today is anything but "socialist" by the standards of many Americans. But it is a socialist country by earlier standards, and it's time that people faced up to that fact. Every major economy in the world is now socialist by the standards of the past (say, 1930). The chief reason being that you can't run a large, modern state without significant wealth redistribution and government programs, inasmuch as the "market" does not suffice as a mechanism to preserve the environment and provide people a minimally acceptable lifestyle at individual or collective low tides.

:m: Peace.

 

I'm afraid that socialis is a choice. To me it seems Americans have chosen for consumption. Consumption is not a very good basis for socialism. In Europe socialism came to the forefront as a reaction to social inequality. I assume nobody gave a shit in the US at the same time, because there was plentiful opportunities during the same era. And now I seriously doubt that anyone in the US wants to make sacrifices for anyone else. It will hinder their own consumption needs.
In Europe the socialist mindset never left, that you have to take care of each other. In the US it is still very much, me me me me and me first. You will need some kind of spark to set socialism off. Maybe one day americans will really start thinking about their society, but the main problem is the constant bombardment of propaganda and their inability to recognise this as propaganda.

Maybe some socialist/liberal education is needed????

 

I've had the idea that plenty more people can be sucked up into the military. We need to people to serve our interests and those of our allies over seas. I don't see them letting the military shrink again for a while now, esp. with how important security is becoming.

Also, because of how good America has become at security, I see a lot of Americans doing security work abroad. Not really the military, but the private sector. Maybe ex-military. I've seen documentaries about this and there has been a huge surge in the last couple of years. I don't see that changing anytime soon, unless that shit hole called Middle East gets wiped out or something.