How do you solve a problem called....Tony

Discussion in 'Religion Archives' started by Cainxinth, Dec 8, 2001.

  1. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Staff Member

    Messages:
    37,136
    Blown opportunites ... too bad, Cupid

    Then support it or give yourself a rest.
    You'll have to show me where that is, specifically. Or is this one of those things where you expect everyone to perceive words exactly as you do?
    Yeah, well, what did you expect? You refuse to address the issues and keep pressing for more and more. You ought to have a conversation: just because you don't have children to treat with such disregard doesn't mean you need to spill it over onto us.
    You'll have to document that specifically, and make reference that this is the point you're addressing. Or are you referring to those generalizations you make which you seem to expect us to understand with every nuance you recognize? Perhaps, then, you could be a little more specific and stop wasting our time.
    Seems important enough that you keep going on and on and on about it. And, Blonde Cupid, you offered to comment on whatever you liked, and you chose to leave it at vague assertions with no evidentiary support. We're now ... how many posts into it? And you still can't? Why do you bother, then?
    You know, did you just stick your nose in? I mean, it seems to me that you read the post to Jan Ardena which addressed the notion of those two threads and the 1,460+ posts in Tony1's library. What is this diversion you keep referring to, Blonde Cupid?

    Look at you! You can't even provide the cited example of the diversion you accuse. Why is this, Blonde Cupid? Why is it that you come to the table with all these things to say and nothing to back them up?
    You're getting so mechanical you sound like a Republican. Show us an example if you can! Or should I simply assume that you can't?
    Well, Blonde Cupid, you've contributed nothing to this debate, so nothing is what you get to demonstrate.

    You've had ample opportunity to provide evidence of your assertions, and yet you give none. You keep speaking of less-than-noble manners yet refuse to provide even a single example to demonstrate your claim. I really am starting to wonder: Which of you Tony1 fans is ever going to have a point? Seriously: I've noted a few people openly defending Tony1's spiteful ways, and not a single one of you can provide an example to back up your poisonous rhetoric.

    I consider whatever point you think you had to be forfeit.

    Really, Blonde Cupid, I don't understand what was so hard about it.

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    nice show,
    Tiassa

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  3. blonde_cupid Registered Senior Member

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    Cainxinth,

    ***Cupid, do you really think Tony is an understanding, tolerant, and wise person.***

    These terms, understanding, tolerant and wise are very relative and very relevant here. Given that Tony did not start a thread slandering you with his opinion about you and given that he did not encourage the entire community to ignore you, I'd have to say that, relatively speaking, you come across as less understanding, tolerant or wise than he does.

    ***Someone you would like to spend time discussing the meaning of life with?***

    I don't know what it would be like for me to discuss the meaning of life with him. However, we have discussed and debated other issues and, for the most part, our discourse has been interesting and pleasant enough.

    ***Does anyone here think of Tony that way?***

    I recently came across a post where the individual stated, in what seemed to be a sincere manner, that the only reason they came here was because Tony1 was here and they enjoyed debating with him.

    ***Or like me, do you think Tony is a hyperactive nut, bent on attacking anyone remotely different than him, irrespective of their belief in god.***

    I think I pretty much answered that. Tony1 and I have had some differences and I have not perceived his responses as attacks.

    ***I called myself those names because I had unknowingly been rude to Elbaz, and I was apologizing to him, not making statements about myself in general. Unlike some, I admit it when I have behaved badly.***

    Maybe, once again, you have unknowingly behaved badly towards another poster?
     
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  5. Avatar smoking revolver Valued Senior Member

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    Sorry to interrupt you, but WHY is there such a large discussion about one person, who does nothing so significant to attract everyones attention. Yes there is Tony. Well let him be so. Let him live and don't bother about him.
    There are so much other interesting themes going on.
     
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  7. blonde_cupid Registered Senior Member

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    427
    tiassa,

    ***You ought to have a conversation: just because you don't have children to treat with such disregard doesn't mean you need to spill it over onto us.***

    Here is another example of the characteristic reaction of projecting a less-than-noble manner onto another poster.
     
  8. Cainxinth Registered Senior Member

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    67
    “Maybe, once again, you have unknowingly behaved badly towards another poster?”

    Possible, but upon examination it doesn’t seem to be the case. I misunderstood Elbaz's intentions towards me, Tony1 has made it infinitely clear what he thinks of my views (e.g. fictitious, asinine, wrong). Also, I am shocked that you get along with Tony1. I was under the impression that he didn’t like anyone. Is there anyone else out there that would like to speak up for Tony?
     
  9. Cainxinth Registered Senior Member

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    67
    “WHY is there such a large discussion about one person, who does nothing so significant to attract everyones attention. Yes there is Tony. Well let him be so. Let him live and don't bother about him. There are so much other interesting themes going on.”

    I agree with you Avatar but its difficult to discuss those more interesting things when one person is screaming at the top of his lungs what a moron you are, and how wrong your view on those interesting things is.
     
  10. blonde_cupid Registered Senior Member

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    427
    tiassa,

    ***Seriously: I've noted a few people openly defending Tony1's spiteful ways, and not a single one of you can provide an example to back up your poisonous rhetoric.***

    Can you provide a specific example of what you perceive as poisonous rhetoric on my part in defense of something specific which you can demonstrate was spiteful on Tony1's part?
     
  11. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Staff Member

    Messages:
    37,136
    You're right, Blonde Cupid

    Yes, indeed, Blonde Cupid: Your refusal to address the issues you invoked all on your own is an example of my inadequacy.

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    Well, for instance, there is your frequent reference to my diversion. You know, that unreasonable demand regarding the 1,460 posts that I apparently tacked on after you offered your opinion? You know, that unreasonable after-the-fact demand that, in all reality, existed before you opened your mouth and got yourself into this discussion?
    Like this, Blonde Cupid. This review of the chronology is false, and on a point you've been corrected on, and on a point which you insist on. Poisonous, indeed: I could assume you to be that stupid, but that would be less than noble, wouldn't it? So there's the other obvious conclusion:

    Liar.

    See? How tough was that, Blonde Cupid? How long should I go on doing what you refuse to do or are incapable of doing? How long should I go on playing pony to your carrot? How many of your "clarifications" do you need before you can back your assertions with anything demonstrable?

    Did you want examples of other peoples' poisons, too? Go read the 1,460 posts and their accompanient threads.

    You've spent what credibility I can grant you. The rest is now up to you.

    Thanks for trying, I suppose.

    --Tiassa

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  12. Taken Registered Senior Member

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    599
    As many of you may have noticed I change my signature weekly. Last week while replying to this post I changed it to.....

    Someone once asked me "why do you always insist on taking the hard road?" and I replied "why do you assume I see two roads"?

    - Unknown

    The idea being that one must not judge anothers ways based on their own, for we don't see things as they do. I still stand behind that point, and my post that Tony has a purpose under the sun regardless of the direction each of us take it as individualls.

    Since Tony on another thread decided to throw that signature back in my face in a straw grasping expedition (for which he is famouse) to prove to himself that I am evil or possesed, I wanted to clarify when and why I actually chose that quote.

    And today as every other week before I will change my signature again.



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    ) Peace
     
  13. blonde_cupid Registered Senior Member

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    427
    tiassa,

    ***quote:
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Take my assessment as a complaint, if you wish. But, just so I don't leave you in a confused state... look back in this thread. The first question asked between the two of us was a question which I asked of you, to which you retorted with a diversionary demand. It was fairly clear from this outset that you did not want what I had to offer - you demanded something else.
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    You'll have to document that specifically, and make reference that this is the point you're addressing. Or are you referring to those generalizations you make which you seem to expect us to understand with every nuance you recognize? Perhaps, then, you could be a little more specific and stop wasting our time.***

    What value do you place on specific examples? Apparently, I wasted my time looking at your specific examples because I thought it was important to you. Yet, when I offered to discuss the specific examples you gave as your own evidence, you demanded that I to back through 1460 posts splattered all over the boards in an attempt to divine what you think serves your generalizations.

    Now, you demand that I document the first question asked between the two of us in this very thread and the response to that question.

    Really, I would except you've amply demonstrated that I would be wasting my time.
     
  14. Cris In search of Immortality Valued Senior Member

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    9,199
    Taken,

    I completely agree and if we consider Usama Bin Laden in the same context then you are right, he should be free to express his views also and we should respect him for that, right, no matter what damage he might cause? Your logic implies that we should take no action regarding Usama either. After all most of us do not see things the same way as Usama, perhaps his views are correct and we are wrong?

    I think most of us would agree with your perspective but the issue is one of degree. Tolerance for the views of others is admirable, but should such tolerance extend to the point of harm. Should we tolerate Usama’s terrorism because we must accept all alternate views? No of course not.

    Fortunately we do not have such extremes at sciforums but we do have someone who shows no tolerance for the ideas of others and goes further by launching vitriolic attacks on everyone. While I welcome all alternate views I do not see any need to tolerate or accept extensive unpleasant behavior.

    Cris
     
  15. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Staff Member

    Messages:
    37,136
    Um, whatever?

    Um ... what the hell? Okay, try it this way: Ask me my opinion of the Bible.

    --I've read it. I don't like it.
    Why not?
    --It's full of negative stuff.
    Such as? Can I have an example?
    --Well, what's your assessment of it?
    My assessment of the Bible has plenty of record all over these forums.
    --Yes, but what's your assessment? I was kind enough to give you mine.
    You've told me it's full of negative stuff, but you can't provide any examples.
    --I've given you plenty of examples ....

    So how long would you like to go on?

    Seriously: the Bible is a pretty stupid document. Would you like examples of why? Well, there's the bit about giving your daughters to gang rape so that a man doesn't commit sodomy. There's the stupid bit with jealousy and the apple and the snake. Seriously: I think God set up Adam and Eve and nullified any notion of forgiveness or the right to forgive. That is an example we can argue. I think God is full of sh-t when His angels praise the gang rape of a man's daughters facilitated by the kindness of his heart in which he didn't want to see another man take it up the yang. The ongoing misogynist grudge, holding woman responsible for Eden ... it's all pretty dumb. But these are all examples we can discuss that are a little more specific than just claiming the Bible to be full of bad stuff.

    Are you capable of seeing the difference?
    Why don't you document that as a chronology? You keep talking about my demand that you go back through all 1,460 posts as if it is a separate issue. You chose to insert yourself into this conversation, and you chose, apparently, to ignore the part, addressed to someone else, which refers to those posts. Look, if you can't pay attention to the discussion you're interrupting, then stuff it and stick with discussions you're more attuned to. And I love your continued lies: ...when I offered to discuss the specific examples you gave as your own evidence.... Really: you've started with the general ideas. You haven't even touched on the specifics. Again, it's like my review of the Bible. The book sucks. Flat out. It's boring, menacing, ill-tempered, full of crap, and describes the greatest swindle in the history of the Universe. Great, but that's just a review of what I think. Why I think that has to do with specific examples, and how those examples function in reality. Like I've pointed out before, Lv. 21.16-ff is a Biblical rule my Catholic high school chose to ignore; this is not problematic--it seems the handicapped priests could do their job just as poorly as the able-bodied. But it really is a stupid rule for God to punish people for being as God has made them. Do you see? Isn't that a little more specific at least than just sticking with a diatribe about how sucky the Bible is in general?

    For instance, you seem to be quite set on how specific my examples are or aren't. And yet you think you've offered to discuss "specific examples". You've offered nothing of the sort. After all, you've looked at those two topics, but I'll notice that, of those general topics, you didn't comment on the specifics of my original comments, either:
    So what is your opinion of the med school routine, Blonde Cupid? There's a specific example that you utterly failed to address. How about his anti-Catholic bigotry? There's another specific example you failed to address.

    So once again, you're asserting a falsehood? Is this yet another lie in order to drag this argument out?
    Well, you seem to have some difficulty with your memory. Or would you like to explain to us why you bothered sticking your nose into this one in the first place? Since you obviously read the post to Jan Ardena (since you responded to one or its issues) I'm not sure what confuses you so badly. Seriously, Blonde Cupid, when you wrote
    did you really think that was all there was to it? What, did you see a chance to dig in and take some shots? Next time, boy, read what you're about and learn what you're shooting at. Or at least load something other than blanks. Impotent insistence and whining digression will earn you nothing in this exchange. What, were you trying to be specific enough to dodge the other 1,400+ posts? Did you really think I would just say, "Yeah, sure," and you could then proceed to do what you've demonstrated a profound capability for and absolutely sink the recorded, historical truth of the matter in favor of your petty bigotries and hatreds?

    You have chosen to push several posts in which you avoid the issue you chose to undertake in pursuit of a more personalized quarry. I hope you enjoyed the hunt, because you're out of ammunition. I mean, look at you: still crying about it and you won't even tell us what's wrong.

    "What about the Bible do you thnk is negative?"
    Oh, 2 Timothy.
    "What about 2 Timothy is negative?"
    I've given you my assessment of the Bible, now you're supposed to admit that you suck!

    Have I made my point, yet? Do you not like Ford cars? Or do you not like them because your Mustang had a bad transmission? There is a difference, you know.

    Think about it this way: I don't like our president, GW Bush. If someone asks me why I don't like Dubya, or asks me to give an example of my problem with him, I can point to several things he's said in public and several policies he's lent his efforts toward that describe why I don't like him as our president. I can even tell you what it is that chafes me about this aspect of the president.

    If I apply your standard, Blonde Cupid, I'm merely saying that I don't like the president because he's an ass and that's all the specific example you should need. At worst, I'm assuming your thought process, that you will view the situation with the same criteria I do. At worst, I'm assuming you too stupid to understand my reasons.

    Can you follow that example? Can you apply it across to the present situation?

    Now then, you've had several days and repeated requests to provide even the slightest snippet and a few basic comments to help us see where you're coming from in your assessment.

    You have provided absolutely nothing along these lines. The best I can conclude is that your opinion is as empty as your integrity.

    Tell me, Blonde Cupid: What, aside from lying and whining do you have to support your position?

    Nothing? Didn't think so.

    Like I said, you've spent your credibility. I told you then that the rest was up to you, and you appear to have elected to spend on credit. Sorry, angel, but I don't take credit.

    Why don't you redirect your efforts someplace where you might get some profit from them? Say, bullying children for candy money?

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    ,
    Tiassa

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  16. Taken Registered Senior Member

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    599
    Cris Tony does harm only with words and only if we allow his words to be of any worth to us. I think most here give very little credibility to anything he says. No I wasn't speaking of Usamas actions. He can believe anything he wants about Americans, but when you take that in to action it is different. "My rights end where someone elses begin"...and wrongfull action against another due to difference of beliefs or opinions is that line being crossed.

    It is by the goodness of God that in our country we have those three unspeakably precious things: freedom of speech, freedom of conscience, and the prudence never to practice either.
    --Mark Twain
     
  17. Cris In search of Immortality Valued Senior Member

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    9,199
    Taken,

    The harm is to the standards of our discussions and to the general widespread disruption of the forum. The harm is real and unwanted by most.

    Also your quote from Mark Twain is insulting to the massive human effort that went into making the western world free from oppression, and much of that was freedom from religious oppression.

    Cris
     
  18. Taken Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    599
    Send 12 different people to see the same movie and they will see 12 different movies.
    The idea that we have the prudence not to practice our freedom of speech and conscience, means to me, not pushing my thoughts opinions or beliefs on others just for the sake of doing so, or because I can. Sometimes it is indeed better to just shut up. Mabey some would do better to realize that is an option but they unfortunatly don't, that too is their right.

    I have debated Tonys ideas, methods, and practices right along beside everyone else here. But I can not in good conscience debate his right to have them.
     
  19. blonde_cupid Registered Senior Member

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    427
    tiassa,

    ***For instance, you seem to be quite set on how specific my examples are or aren't. And yet you think you've offered to discuss "specific examples". You've offered nothing of the sort. After all, you've looked at those two topics, but I'll notice that, of those general topics, you didn't comment on the specifics of my original comments, either:
    quote:
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Here, I'll help you: an early debate I had with Tony1--I love this one because a couple pages in, you'll hit Tony1's med-school bender. Remember, your body doesn't do anything to heal; healing just happens http://www.sciforums.com/showthread...37886#post37886

    Or here's another one: http://www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?threadid=2571 For this topic, tell me please what his contribution is. At this point, he was tolerable in the sense that he largely ran around in circles, but you're going to have to tell me what looks so noble about his manner. The most part of his posts are diversionary at best, and one of my favorites is when he resorts, on 4/7, to the line that Catholics aren't perfectly wrong. Even back then, it would have been nice if he had anything to contribute to the topic
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    So what is your opinion of the med school routine, Blonde Cupid? There's a specific example that you utterly failed to address. How about his anti-Catholic bigotry? There's another specific example you failed to address.***

    NOW you want me to do what I offered to do at the outset?

    You have got to be kidding.

    Really, I would except you continue to demonstrate that I would be wasting my time.
     
  20. Cainxinth Registered Senior Member

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    "I have debated Tonys ideas, methods, and practices right along beside everyone else here. But I can not in good conscience debate his right to have them." -Taken

    Everyone here agrees that Tony has a right to his ideas. But does he also has a right to the methods and practices with which he expresses those ideas? Is right that that on a whim Tony uses his “methods and practices” to take over threads and scuttle them in fruitless nitpicking and name-calling?
     
  21. blonde_cupid Registered Senior Member

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    427
    666,

    Thanks for getting back to me. I'm sorry you weren't feeling well. You sound wonderful now. I think the atmosphere would be much more pleasant here if more people took your approach and recognized when they weren't in an appropriate mood to reply.

    ***I was not suggesting that we "mob" Tony1. That was the intent of the topic starter, not me. Just that his actions will be bring about pepole ignoring him and pushing him a way. Do I feel that one person should take it upon himself to entice (SP?) others into following thier lead in pushing some one out. Well that depends. Here at this board, no they shouldn't. As stated before they have a couple of better actions to take. Such as logeing a formal complaint to just just plain ignoring the person.***

    I've heard you say something like this before and I'm happy to see such relative reasonableness in your posts.

    ***WOW, you have just nailed on the head what Tony1 does! He tends to start off fine (not all the time) then when he is asked why he belives the way he does he quickly toses up a few quotes from the bible and begins telling others how stupid, desperate, delusional, retarded, or in the throes of hallucinations they are. I have even see him say that they are being controlled by demons, becuase they belive differently then he does.

    So are you saying that you are "shocked" by his behavior??***

    First, let me say that, I expect to see people in a religious debate forum posting quotes from the Bible and other holy books - some more than others, in an effort to substantiate their own belief. I do it myself sometimes. I usually reserve such discourse for discussions with individuals who are open to it but that's just a personal decision. Someone quoting the Bible does not bother me. If it did, believe me, you wouldn't find me debating in a religious forum.

    As far as the name-calling goes, the more I come here, the more I am shocked not only at that type of behavior but also at how many people actually resort to such behavior. My mind is jarred when anyone here behaves that way, including Tony. Unfortunately, what I have observed is that, once it starts it usually becomes a two-way street and the one who starts it varies greatly from thread to thread.

    ***I have to agree with you. It is not just one person. He just one the worst offenders.***

    You might be right, but from my own personal experiences and from the interactions I have observed here so far, I disagree.

    ***His behavior is like a pet rock???? A pet rock does not speak!! IT just sits there. He does much more then that!***

    It was a relative comparison... like a pet rock as compared to some other posters here.

    ***Well lets look at the choices he has left pepole.

    1.) Play into his manipulation and be part of the disruption of the thread.

    2.) sit back take what he has to dish out with out a peep.

    3.) ignore him, loge a complaint, or similar action.

    He hasn't left any room for discussion. He has been called on this many times before. At best he ignores it, or continues to quote pepole out of context in order to try and manipulated what they have said into ammunition against them.***

    Probably all I can say about this, again, is that my experience and observations here lead me to believe otherwise.


    ***In short...

    I was never advocating that an idividual try and entice others on the this board to push Tony1 out. I was advocating that each person who is affected by this to make thier own choice on how to deal with it.***

    I agree.

    ***I can clearly see that you have been trying to bring up a different point of view on this subject. Unfortunetly I don't feel that point of view is relevent in this situation.***

    I think that all points of view are relevant.

    ***He has been such a repeat offender that I feel he shouldn't be molly coddled. After all he has brought it on him self.***

    When I view this issue from both sides, one side at a time, much of what has been described as offensive by one side can often be seen as defensive if you look at it from the other guys point of view and vice-versa.

    Take care, 666. I hope I keep seeing you around these boards.
     
  22. wet1 Wanderer Registered Senior Member

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    I came back to check and see how the members where doing with this thread. Has anyone noticed that a lot of the participants of this thread layout their points much the same as Tony1? Right down to the asterisks in front and at the end of the part that has been segmented out of the message. While delivery is indeed different on the comments that are to be discussed, it seems that Tony1 has had quite an effect upon this forum. Or is that my imagination?
     
  23. blonde_cupid Registered Senior Member

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    wet1,

    ***Has anyone noticed that a lot of the participants of this thread layout their points much the same as Tony1? Right down to the asterisks in front and at the end of the part that has been segmented out of the message.***

    There are not a lot of people in this thread using asterisks. I think I'm the only one in this thread who uses three asterisks before and three after. Nothing to do with Tony1.
     

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