How do you solve a problem called....Tony

Discussion in 'Religion Archives' started by Cainxinth, Dec 8, 2001.

  1. Jan Ardena OM!!! Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    13,968
    Is that 'jerk' remark directed at me?

    Love

    Janardana.
     
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  3. blonde_cupid Registered Senior Member

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    427
    tiassa,

    ***Here, I'll help you: an early debate I had with Tony1--I love this one because a couple pages in, you'll hit Tony1's med-school bender. Remember, your body doesn't do anything to heal; healing just happens http://www.sciforums.com/showthread...37886#post37886

    Or here's another one: http://www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?threadid=2571 For this topic, tell me please what his contribution is. At this point, he was tolerable in the sense that he largely ran around in circles, but you're going to have to tell me what looks so noble about his manner. The most part of his posts are diversionary at best, and one of my favorites is when he resorts, on 4/7, to the line that Catholics aren't perfectly wrong. Even back then, it would have been nice if he had anything to contribute to the topic.***

    Although my posting history has been relatively shorter than yours and Tony1's, I do have some posting history with both of you which doesn't seem to fit the molds as described.

    I took the time to read the threads you linked above because it seemed to be important to you that someone do that. Were these not meant to be representative of some issues as stated? Should I not have taken seriously the issues which you raised about your opponent's manner in these specific threads?

    ***Of those and his other 1400 posts.

    Whenever you get around to it.***

    Please keep in mind that an individual's posts do not exist in a vacuum so that when one goes back to review as suggested, one reviews the posts in the context of the thread.

    Having reviewed Tony1's posts in the context of the threads pointed out, which threads include some of your posts and interactions between the two of you, my more-objective assessment is that a less-than-"noble" manner is being projected onto another poster.

    I hope that your spirits are soon filled with the grace to forgive and to be forgiven.
     
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  5. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Staff Member

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    37,148
    Um ... why are you reminding me of this?
    I'm quite sure you read this, right? After all, it's in the post to Jan which you responded to by asking me if I wanted your assessment.
    Perhaps you'd like to go back, then, and fill in the gaps of misinterpretation? Or is that something you should wait to do until you finish reviewing all 1430+ posts and their respective threads? After all, perhaps you could explain to us what is so evidentiary about the concept that something is so because someone says it is. Such as Tony1's anti-Catholic bender?

    Like I said, there's a lot of them to go through. You've given your assessment of two threads with no explanation of how you got there, so it's a little hard to tell if you're making an objective assessment or just sticking with a party line.

    Let's go for it. Pull up your examples and let me know how you arrive at your assessment. Essentially, you'll be filling in the gaps that Tony1 refused to contribute.

    In that case, for instance, perhaps you'd like to answer Cupric's old question to Tony1 from the Pagan Fest thread? Tony1 hasn't given an answer yet, and still refuses to explain what data contributes to his uneducated assertions about pagans and human character.

    Your limited assessment is only as valid as its weight in electricity right now; we'd love to see how you arrived at your conclusions.

    thanx,
    Tiassa

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  7. blonde_cupid Registered Senior Member

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    tiassa,

    Maybe we can narrow things down.

    Again: I took the time to read the threads you linked above because it seemed to be important to you that someone do that. Were these not meant to be representative of some issues as stated? Should I not have taken seriously the issues which you raised about your opponent's manner in these specific threads?

    Did you take the time to read your own posts in the two threads which were highlighted? If so, how would you assess your own manner?
     
  8. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Staff Member

    Messages:
    37,148
    Blonde Cupid

    Does that mean you have no evidentiary basis for your opinion?

    Understand: Part of our difference of opinion is that we're viewing different data sets. You've seen what you've seen, but you haven't been following this running battle for nine months. That's why I encourage you to read them all.

    Another helpful thing is if you provide some basis to explain your opinion.

    And yes, I did read them ... I was involved in them. I remember them well enough. I wrote in them.

    I think my assessments are spattered all over Sciforums.

    thanx,
    Tiassa

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  9. blonde_cupid Registered Senior Member

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    427
    tiassa,

    Although I did not read them all my data set is much larger than the two threads which you highlighted. One cannot help but come across the bitter, prolonged hostility and I have an ample sampling of the interaction between you and Tony1.

    Again: Again: I took the time to read the threads you linked above because it seemed to be important to you that someone do that. Were these not meant to be representative of some issues as stated? Should I not have taken seriously the issues which you raised about your opponent's manner in these specific threads?

    Focusing on the two threads which you highlighted, how would you assess your own manner?
     
  10. Xerxes asdfghjkl Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,830
    I've skimmed the last few posts and I see that there is some bickering on Tony1's past posts.

    Now although I agree that almost every single one of them is worth much less then a deer turd, I'd like to turn from the past. Lets now look at the future.

    Can Tony1 change. I know he is studying this thread, but not posting. he wants us to think he's left for good, which I honestly dont believe. And in all of this studying, i bet you just about anything that there may be just enough power to turn a crank in his brain which just might turn the thinking part on.

    Thats all beside the case. Why dont you guys look at yourselves. See what you become. I see 5 animals in this room. Owls, sharks, wolves, turtles, and teddy bears. Which one are you? I will be back with a little quiz tomorrow to help you all determine that. sharks attack with their opinion in mind and only that, owls talk alot and look at all options, turtles withdrawl and dont care, foxes can become any animal that meets the situation, and teddy bears have relationships and the feelings of others ahead of their goals and wishes. Tomorrows quiz will help you determine who you are, the results may surprise.


    In the meantime, look at the way you guys have posted in this thread. There is no criticism on the manner we are posting in, only the matter of someone else.



    I'll ask you guys to think about this tonight. If someone was talking about you the way you were all talking about tony1, how would you all feel. What would you say back. What would you think of that person?
     
  11. blonde_cupid Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    427
    Elbaz,

    If I had a problem with Tony1, or anyone, then I'd speak with him/them about it directly and I would hope that he/they would extend me the same courtesy.
     
  12. 666 Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    378
    Elbaz,

    I would feel like I pissed some one off, and that I was acting like a jerk. Me personaly would appolagize for my actions.

    As Tiassa has stated this is not about one action but many repeated over and over. I haven't read one theard that he has posted in that I have seen him go with out calling some one down personally. Uassaly it's an attack on thier intelligence.

    Now I do have to admit that I haven't read every one of his post, but I have quite a few threads that he has posted in. At what point do you stop being nice about? The 50th, 60th, or the 70th time?

    blonde_cupid,

    Pepole have spoken to him about it. He doesn't get the point.


    If he has a problem with what he has brought upon himself he should stop the behavior that is causing it.
     
  13. blonde_cupid Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    427
    666,

    ***If he has a problem with what he has brought upon himself he should stop the behavior that is causing it.***

    You honestly believe that Tony1 is responsible for the actions of others who chose to slander him with their posts in this thread?
     
  14. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Staff Member

    Messages:
    37,148
    Reactionary

    Now, that aside, what can you show us about the criteria by which you reach your assessment? If you need any clarification on how I reach mine, I remind you that there's nine months of it splattered all over this forum.

    thanx,
    Tiassa

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  15. blonde_cupid Registered Senior Member

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    427
    tiassa,

    ***Reactionary***

    Was this meant to be a one word assessment of your manner?
     
  16. wet1 Wanderer Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    8,616
    I have asked Tony in the thread itself for several times if he can please speak up for himself...

    All he does is calling other humans channeling demons and then he quotes, quotes and quotes again.

    No way of normal conversation, not to speak of discussion, possible with Tony...

    Sad but true. I asked him in the threads itself. No normal answer comes out of him. Only his bible quotes after he quotes the humans he is throwing his bible quotes at...

    I wish you luck Elbaz by trying to talk to Tony normally and get an answer back without being quoted and without stupid remark.

    Have the feeling Tony does it on purpose...
     
  17. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Staff Member

    Messages:
    37,148
  18. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Staff Member

    Messages:
    37,148
    Sixes....

    To the one hand, it's lovely to see your name around here again; to the other, I'm sorry you had to step into the middle of a shouting match.
    I hate to admit it, but he's got you on this one. After all, we could just stop coming to Sciforums and posting altogether. You know how it goes, right? The only way to be fair to an aggressor (as polite as I can put it) is apparently to let the aggressor have his way.

    I mean, it's hardly a consideration at all, is it, that what Tony1 is actually responsible for is creating conditions whereby this comes about. As many posters have noted, repeated appeals for a better approach have gone unheeded and disrespected. And that disrespect is hardly Tony1's fault, right? His bigotry and spite must be something we are demanding of him, right?

    As you noted--50, 60, 70 times? I always wonder what, beyond 100%, is necessary before taking action on the pattern observed.

    Nobody ever answers that question, either.

    Anyway, 'tis lovely to see you about; hopefully this place will get back to its former, more civilized days. But in the meantime, thank you for the springboard for a little sarcasm ... it did me some good.

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    thanx much,
    Tiassa

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  19. blonde_cupid Registered Senior Member

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    427
    tiassa,

    ***Yes***

    Was this meant to be a response to my question? I can't be certain because there was a post between it and the question I asked you and it was not addressed to anyone.

    If so, it would be appreciated if you would be so courteous as to address your responses to me by using my name.

    Thanks.
     
  20. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Staff Member

    Messages:
    37,148
    O Mr Blonde Cupid, Wise Sage of All Things

    A) Yes, that is a response to your question.

    B) If you would be so courteous as to perhaps get around to providing those citations and explanations which demonstrate how you reach your conclusions, it will be more than simply appreciated. It will be taken as a demonstration that you're not FoS.

    Seriously, Blonde Cupid, when are you going to stop demanding information and niceties and get around to addrssing the issues put before you?

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    ,
    Tiassa

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  21. 666 Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    378
    Tiassa,

    It's nice to see that you are still around! I will most likly be around more often now. I got laid off back in Oct. Some body got affraid that they weren't going to get thier bonus this year and becuase I was the highest paid contractor I got the "axe". Oh well...

    It's no big deal walking into this mess. Every board has it's turbulent times.


    Blonde_cupid,


    I thought slander is when you state some thing about some body that is not true?

    We are responsible For how we respond to pepole, but you can not expect pepole to walk on egg shells and worry about how how he feels when he consitently tramples on the feelings of others. Not that I was personaly "hurt" by any thing he has said. He has even berated me and called down my inteligence. It didn't "hurt" me, but this is his M.O. He walks into threads and disrupts them to the point that the thread is irelavent (SP?). He has done this to every thread I have read that he has posted in.

    It would be iresponsible for me to walk up to him and punch him for being a jerk, but it is not iresponsible for me or several pepole who he continues to atack to ignore and push him a way. It is a normal and natural consequence for this to happen in society. Hell I think some thing similar happens in just about every society.


    Ok on with my point (finally)....

    If one does not wish to be excluded from a group, be it by offical rule or by natural consequence, he shouldn't use behavior that will obviously cause this. That is what he is responible for. Not for my actions, but for the natural consequences of life.

    Allthough there might be a better approach for the users of this board to take and that is to loge a formal complaint with either Dave W. or to the moderator of this board Qxy. Especialy if you feel he is disrupting the post to the point of non discusion. After all we are here to discuss and not to prevent communication.

    If you'd rather deal with it your self you can all ways set his screen name in your ignore list in the controll panle. I'm not sure if it's for private messages or all messages. Hell why not do both? In fact here is what it says in the help section...

    After all Blonde_cupid wouldn't this be taking responsibility for ones own actions by not dealing with the person that is causing the source of fustration and chosing to not see the source becuase you are so fricken tiered of it? Or should we all let him have his way and just take the what has to dish out and not discuss anything? If we were to just sit back take what he has to dish all we would be doing when we came here is read quotes from the bible and listen to how stupid and damned to an eternity in hell we are.
     
    Last edited: Dec 15, 2001
  22. tony1 Jesus is Lord Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,279
    Hi guys, sorry I was gone for that week

    *Originally posted by Cris
    ...his lack of civility...
    *

    Translation: tough questions.

    *Originally posted by Elbaz
    I'm sure, deep down, tony1 actually wants to believe creationism and crap, because religion is where he finds comfort, but blocks out the sheer relevance and truth of evolution by refusing to learn anything about it, or diverting the subject constantly.
    *

    Nah, I tried believing in evolution while I was going to school, but it was just too stupid.

    *Originally posted by Taken
    He gets us thinking
    *

    Only those who can.

    *Originally posted by Cris
    It is not so much tony1’s beliefs that we object to but his behavior.
    *

    Awww, you can dish it out, but you can't take it.

    *they are met with further malice. The cycle never ends and the topics die as a result. *

    Sure they do.
    This topic is almost entirely about me and it took off like a rocket.
    Besides, I intend no malice.
    Specifically concerning you, if you believe what you say you believe then what is the problem with some testing of your beliefs?
    I notice that your beliefs are rather weak, and that you prefer to scuttle away rather than defend them.

    *Originally posted by tiassa
    that he will enjoy looking down on them from Heaven while they suffer?
    *

    Goes against everything I've ever posted.
    No eternal suffering, therefore nothing to "look down" on.
    Living on earth eternally, not in heaven, therefore not looking "down" anyway.

    *More than once, the answer has come back that no, he didn't.*

    In your drug-addled dreams.

    *Originally posted by Bambi
    Well, not from me thank you very much.
    *

    What happened?
    Did you run out of good stuff?

    *Originally posted by Elbaz
    All this fear of going to hell or what not, and brainwashing his parents probably gave him, led him to his present behavior.
    *

    Not afraid of that.
    No brainwashing, either, since I didn't become a Christian until after I left home.

    *Originally posted by Teg
    if he were to use your exact statements when quoting, not the statement minus its meaning.
    *

    Don't blame me if your statements are minus meaning.

    *Originally posted by Cainxinth
    So, I took the initiative to exclude this jerk from the discourse of people who are interested in amicable and mutually beneficial debate, and frankly I think I made the right decision.
    *

    If you do say so yourself.
    Your version of debate is everyone agreeing with you.

    *Originally posted by tiassa
    You could show how one of Tony1's accusations that people are in conspiracy against everything good (demon accusations, Satan accusations) is appropriate.
    *

    Some people want to get rid of demons.
    Apparently, you don't.

    *Originally posted by Bambi
    He actually believes in miracle healings even while at the same time attacking objective science.
    *

    Healings courtesy of "objective science" take too long.
    Besides, given the atheist definition of "belief," I don't actually believe in miracle healing, since I have experienced and seen so many.
    I know miracle healing is the way to go.
    It's faster, much faster, and doesn't leave weird scars or other aftereffects.

    *Originally posted by Banshee
    Have the feeling Tony does it on purpose...
    *

    Just the cat walking across the keyboard.

    Guys, are you aware that this is a debate forum?
    Someone has to provide a dissenting opinion, otherwise it isn't debate.
     
  23. blonde_cupid Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    427
    666,

    ***I thought slander is when you state some thing about some body that is not true?***

    Not exactly.

    ***We are responsible For how we respond to pepole***

    Exactly. Each one of us, as individuals, are ultimately responsible for how we respond to people regardless of mob mentality.

    ***but you can not expect pepole to walk on egg shells and worry about how how he feels when he consitently tramples on the feelings of others***

    Not that I agree with your assertion that he consistently tramples on the feelings of others because he hasn't trampled on mine even when I've disagreed with him. Regardless... Who's advocating walking on eggshells? If you have a problem with someone, then talk with them about it. If you feel you have done your best and they don't respond, then do what you have to do. Do not attempt to coerce others into feeling or acting the same way towards another person. Interpersonal relationships are just that. Interpersonal. Not mob-personal or gang-personal.

    ***Not that I was personaly "hurt" by any thing he has said.***

    Words can't harm you, 666, unless you let them. It's up to you.

    ***He has even berated me and called down my inteligence.***

    If he did that, then he was wrong. Unfortunately, I've seen this happen many times with many posters - particularly at this forum. I am shocked, for example, at how some posters think nothing of calling another poster or his/her ideas "stupid" or "desperate" or "delusional" or "retarded" or "in the throes of hallucinations". I wonder how many posters would be left if we ostracized all posters who threw out intelligence insults?

    ***It didn't "hurt" me, but this is his M.O. He walks into threads and disrupts them to the point that the thread is irelavent (SP?). He has done this to every thread I have read that he has posted in.***

    You know, 666, I'm glad you're not hurt and I have heard that mantra over and over again about how posts are disrupted by a particular individual. Quite frankly, it happens alot. In the short time I've been here, I've seen a number of threads where Tony1 stayed with the the flow. But, even if I hadn't seen that, it is not just one person who steers threads off track. There is much associative thinking going on in these threads and they rarely stay on topic. I find it all very interesting but I wonder how many posters would be left if we ostracized all posters who supposedly disrupted threads.

    ***It would be iresponsible for me to walk up to him and punch him for being a jerk***

    I agree that it would be irresponsible of you. I do not agree to calling him or anyone else a jerk, though.

    ***but it is not iresponsible for me or several pepole who he continues to atack to ignore and push him a way.***

    If you, as an individual, think he's attacking you then by all means, ignore him. That's not what is happening here, though. What is happening here is that one person is being attacked by a mob.

    ***Ok on with my point (finally)....

    If one does not wish to be excluded from a group, be it by offical rule or by natural consequence, he shouldn't use behavior that will obviously cause this. That is what he is responible for. Not for my actions, but for the natural consequences of life.***

    Sorry, 666, but I don't identify with this as I have never been concerned about whether or not a certain group accepted me. Behavior that would cause someone to be excluded from sciforums is stated upon registration. Apparently, Tony1's behavior is within the bounds of the group as defined by the administration of this board. Personally, speaking as a newer-comer, his behavior is like that of a pet rock compared to some others here. So, what behavior would be obvious for a newcomer to avoid?

    Should the person who is doing 75 mph in a 70 mph zone be singled out for speeding and sent to jail when half of those on the same road are doing 80 mph?

    ***Allthough there might be a better approach for the users of this board to take and that is to loge a formal complaint with either Dave W. or to the moderator of this board Qxy. Especialy if you feel he is disrupting the post to the point of non discusion. After all we are here to discuss and not to prevent communication.***

    That's more reasonable, I think.

    ***If you'd rather deal with it your self you can all ways set his screen name in your ignore list in the controll panle.***

    I'd rather deal with all my interpersonal relationships myself so I won't be setting him or anyone else on ignore.

    Just a different point of view.

    Thanks.
     

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