How Do they Know ours is a Zero Energy Universe?

Discussion in 'Astronomy, Exobiology, & Cosmology' started by Robittybob1, Dec 15, 2011.

  1. Robittybob1 Banned Banned

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    How Do they Know ours is a Zero Energy Universe?

    Stephen Hawkings has been quoted as saying the total energy in the Universe is zero. How would he ever have worked that out when you can't tell how large the Universe is and all this Dark Energy wasn't even thought of at the time?

    Other complications:
    Dark matter?
    Heat radiation?
    Angular momentum of the Universe?
    Matter?
    Gravitational Potential Energy? (-ve energy)

    Can we do an energy balance of the universe?

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    PS: The words religion, God or dream or anything like that won't come into it (from me). OK but there has to be team work to do this Energy Audit of the Universe. Join in please.
     
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2011
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  3. Robittybob1 Banned Banned

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    Is there no one willing to defend or even discuss the Zero energy universe?
     
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  5. prometheus viva voce! Moderator

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    Not with you.
     
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  7. origin Trump is the best argument against a democracy. Valued Senior Member

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    That cracked me up.

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  8. Pincho Paxton Banned Banned

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    You can't test it, but so long as you can find an opposite to everything you can presume it.
     
  9. Robittybob1 Banned Banned

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    You mean opposite and equal?
    With energy one form is transformed to another so are we dealing with opposites or equivalents?
    I'm thinking of referring to Alan Guth, and Stephen Hawking for their quotes on the topic to see if I see where they got their balance sheet figures from.

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  10. Pincho Paxton Banned Banned

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    Hawking used energy as his example. He compares all states of the universe to a form of energy. He compares all opposite reactions as a form of negative energy.
     
  11. Robittybob1 Banned Banned

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    Well if he did, did he get it right in the event of our current understanding of the Universe. For those calculations must be 20 years old now.

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  12. Pincho Paxton Banned Banned

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    Dark Matter might mess him up.
     
  13. Robittybob1 Banned Banned

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    How do you know it wasn't 2 + -1 = 1 with your/Hawking type equation tucked into that?
    As in:
    1 + ( 1 + -1 ) = 1

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  14. Robittybob1 Banned Banned

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    That's what I'm meaning? If it exists what is it's opposite to balance the equation?

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  15. Pincho Paxton Banned Banned

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    Then you have 3 particles, and I don't need 3 particles, I would have a spare one. I wouldn't know what to do with it. I think I would just call it a photon, and save some work.
     
  16. Pincho Paxton Banned Banned

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    I can't say in this thread. It would be up to Hawking's anyway, not me.
     
  17. Robittybob1 Banned Banned

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    That could be it, sort of like massless energy. We were adding energy not particles actually. But I'm going to attempt to understand how to do these energy calculations, the ones using "pseudo-tensor" as below.

    Zero-energy universe
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zero-energy_universe

     
  18. Robittybob1 Banned Banned

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  19. origin Trump is the best argument against a democracy. Valued Senior Member

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    With Pincho and Robitty having a 2-way posting duel this thread is locked in a death spiral - looks like it is off to psuedo science of cesspood...

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  20. Pincho Paxton Banned Banned

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    And the first off topic post goes to...... science as usual.

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    That's the trouble with religion, you have to push your point across.

    The truth is that science starts right off with a paradox.. the singularity. Where does it begin? So I ignore it right off the bat. I put inflation everywhere, it equals zero, there is no problem.

    The Bible starts right off with the problem of getting the animals on the ark. I ignore all paradox, and problems.
     
  21. Robittybob1 Banned Banned

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  22. Pincho Paxton Banned Banned

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    yeah great, more bible stories...

    http://www.astronomycafe.net/qadir/q1164.html

    Where did God come from...

    Pincho Paxton...

    Zero can be everywhere, and nowhere at the same time. So the first particles expanded as zero from everywhere.

    Now... who makes the most sense?
     
  23. Robittybob1 Banned Banned

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    I am determined to make it 100% science. No one came in other than Pincho so it was PP and RB1 by default.

    The word religion or dream or anything like that won't come into it (from me). OK but there has to be team work to do this Energy Audit of the Universe. Join in please.

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