How bout this one for the athiests...just wondering

Discussion in 'Religion Archives' started by Marshall, Sep 9, 2003.

  1. Marshall Registered Senior Member

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    ok, wondering...how do you think mankind was formed?
     
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  3. wesmorris Nerd Overlord - we(s):1 of N Valued Senior Member

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    Humans apparently evolved. Our form is utilitarian in terms of evolution. Apparently in this universe there is a force that urges things to become alive if the proper conditions are met. Once alive, things are imbued with a vehement propensity to stay that way, or they do not survive and as such, they do not exist.
     
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  5. Marshall Registered Senior Member

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    Re: Re: How bout this one for the athiests...just wondering

    Wouldn't that force be a higher power...? (like God)
     
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  7. wesmorris Nerd Overlord - we(s):1 of N Valued Senior Member

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    Re: Re: Re: How bout this one for the athiests...just wondering

    uh, why?

    how would I know?

    more importantly, how would you know?

    i contend that at this point it is not possible for either of us to know.

    further, I'd say that would be equivalent to saying "isn't gravity a higher power"? to which I would retort "gravity seems to be a fundamental aspect of the universe. is that a higher power? what's 'higher'? it is a force. it simply IS. forcing further labels on it is basically a lie."
     
  8. Cris In search of Immortality Valued Senior Member

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    Marshall,

    Welcome to sciforums.

    Or perhaps more likely the 4 forces that we have identified in physics.

    I'm not sure why you would want to invent an imaginary force.
     
  9. wesmorris Nerd Overlord - we(s):1 of N Valued Senior Member

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    me?

    I did it a long time ago and it just sort of stuck. Who are you to call it imaginary though? Hehe.

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    Obviously there is some force that makes things want to be alive under certain conditions. I suppose it's possible that the four (or two depending on who you ask) are responsible for the mischief of life, but I don't really see how. Regardless there exists conditions under which what I said.

    Seems to me that the 4 forces result in chaos, exhausting energy. How is it that as they do that, life can be incurred, which IMO does the exact opposite? Seems to me that there's something more happening, but I'm admittedly full of shit. It's just my silly theory based on my understanding of stuff. You can't tell me though that that life-force isn't directly observable!

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  10. Marshall Registered Senior Member

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    I didn't say I knew or anyone knew..... I was asking your beliefs ... not what you know based on scientific fact..

    I'm not a Christian, although I do believe in something, how else would we be here?


    "the big bang" that's stupid..How did the planets get there to "bang" ?

    Then again How did God get there?
     
  11. wesmorris Nerd Overlord - we(s):1 of N Valued Senior Member

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    Uhm, don't you see that that's what you got?
     
  12. Marshall Registered Senior Member

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  13. wesmorris Nerd Overlord - we(s):1 of N Valued Senior Member

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    Well, welcome to sciforums and I hope you figure it out.

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  14. Nasor Valued Senior Member

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    Like several other people said, I'm sure the vast majority of athiests believe that humans evolved.
     
  15. Marshall Registered Senior Member

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    from what?
     
  16. Cris In search of Immortality Valued Senior Member

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    Wes,

    I think you are looking for something that is unnecessary.

    Imagine two gases, oxygen and hydrogen. They each have individual properties because of the way three of the four forces, electromagnetic, weak nuclear, and strong nuclear, are interacting on subatomic particles.

    But when we put two atoms of hydrogen and one atom of oxygen together, poof, we have water. Now separating out the two atoms is much more difficult than putting them together. That is because of the natural opportunities that were available when the atoms were separate and made the three atoms very attractive to each other. That all sounds like order from chaos to me.

    The other simple reaction I like is the combination of the poisonous gas Chlorine and the volatile and explosive metal Sodium, mix them and poof you have regular salt (Sodium Chloride).

    But I guess you know all that.

    So I don’t have any problems seeing how quite often very bizarre combinations of elements form together with very strong bonds and insist on staying together because of those bonds. The whole amazing system extends easily with far more complex combinations even into areas we call life.

    It should come as no surprise that the basic atom that forms the backbone of life components is Carbon. Out of all the atoms Carbon is the one that is able to form the most connections with very strong bonds with other atoms; it therefore had the highest probability of forming into the most complex stable molecules. It is also the 6th most common element in the universe.

    Given the special properties of carbon, the natural tendency for atoms to be attracted to each other, and given enough time then complexity was inevitable and life also inevitable.

    There is nothing magical or mythical about any of this except for the totally intriguing way that unusual combinations of atoms form into seemingly bizarre results. And all because of a few basic particle types and the four forces of physics.

    Sorry for the chemistry lesson.
     
  17. Dr Lou Natic Unnecessary Surgeon Registered Senior Member

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    Their ancestors maybe

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  18. Cris In search of Immortality Valued Senior Member

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    Marshall,

    From simpler things. Like everything we know, everything has evolved from something simpler.
     
  19. Marshall Registered Senior Member

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    Ancestors? Where did they come from?

    My main question is..


    What, in your BELIEF, is the root of human existence?
     
  20. Nasor Valued Senior Member

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    Chemical reactions that became self-sustaining? I'm not sure what you mean here.
     
  21. Marshall Registered Senior Member

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    well, you say the chemical reactions...but where did they come from? the chemicals i mean.
     
  22. Dr Lou Natic Unnecessary Surgeon Registered Senior Member

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    Their ancestors, and so on and so on.
    This is the same for all living things.
    Marshall think of this, we know where you came from right? Your parents, and your parents came from their parents, and this continues back over hundreds of millions of years.
    Why wouldn't it? Do we have any reason to believe that somewhere along your ancestral line things worked differently?

    Over these hundreds of millions of years naturally new generations will be slightly different, parents don't create clones and hundreds of millions of years is a long time.
    The differences will get greater and greater in each branch of the family tree, and new branches keep forming.
    You should know all this, look for your own family tree and then try to imagine if it kept going back for millions of years and it showed all the directions as opposed to just your families.

    My belief is that the root of human existence would be the same root for every living thing on earth's existence.
    You and your cousin share the common ancestor of your grandparents, your grandparents and their cousins share the common ancestor of their grandparents.
    Why would this system be different at some stage in history?
    Gorrillas and humans both shared a great great greatx 1000+ grandparent. Humans and sharks both share a great, great , great x 10 000 000+ grandparent etc.
     
  23. Cris In search of Immortality Valued Senior Member

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    Marshall,

    From the formation of the Earth some 4.5 billion years ago. And the matter and energy for that formation came from what is known as a big bang, and this big bang seems to been created from a period of inflation that likely created many other big bangs, and inflation may have been formed from earlier phenomena, ad infinitum. The result is likely to be an infinite universe filled with an infinite number of big bang bubbles of which ours is just one. Of course there are other theories for the structure of the universe.

    Of course you might ask where the universe came from. But there is nothing to indicate that it hasn’t always existed. The universe just is.
     

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