Homosexuality - Nature or Nurture?

Discussion in 'Human Science' started by Cellar_Door, Jul 10, 2009.

  1. Cellar_Door Whose Worth's unknown Registered Senior Member

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    Personally, I had always assumed that homosexuality and bisexuality were orientations that 10% of the population were 'just born with'. Whether this be down to events in the womb or even genetics. However, I had no idea quite how divided the scientific community was on the subject:

    Study by Anthony F. Bogaert - Details.

    The womb of a woman who has already had several sons will try to turn a following male baby into a female.

    Scientific verdict: Mostly unsound.

    This study is yet another claim based upon superficial research that may be purely coincidental to or entirely unrelated to the conclusion that the researchers are proposing.

    There is a conceptual leap based upon nothing other than an obvious personal wish/bias, from what may be an interesting chance finding based upon a small population sample to a generalization about the etiology of homosexuality.

    Joseph Berger, M.D.

    Perhaps it's genetic?

    Studies have been done into twins, only to find that they don't always have the same sexuality. They did find that when one twin is homosexual, the number of times the other twin is also homosexual occurs more often than the general rates of homosexuality in society.

    Interestingly, this study also looked at the rest of the family and they found that the rates of homosexuality among the rest of the family, including adopted brothers was 200-300% more frequent than the general rates in society. And so the data leads to the conclusion that something is causing homosexuality to occur more frequently in certain families but that it can not be genetics because the increase even occurs in adopted brothers who do not share any genes at all with the rest of the family.
    http://www.exodusglobalalliance.org/causesc37.php

    How about the arguments for nurture? Hormonal imbalance, sexual abuse or lack of bonding with a same-sex parent.

    Well if homosexuality is a choice, or at least not particularly permanent, this would make a lot of sense:

    There are many reports from former homosexuals saying that they have "come out" of that lifestyle. One platform used is Love Won Out one-day conferences that are held in cities across the United States. The speakers include educators, counselors, and ex-homosexuals who boldly publicize that people can change.
    http://www.allaboutworldview.org/causes-of-homosexuality-faq.htm


    Well after only a bit of light research, I have found countless conflicting viewpoints backed up with unverified scientific evidence.To be honest I'm none the wiser.

    Any thoughts? What, in your view, causes deviations from baby-making heterosexuality?
     
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  3. Baron Max Registered Senior Member

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    Doesn't matter what causes it ...just like many other "things" about humans, just because we want to do something doesn't mean that we should! Sociopaths might be born with the desire to kill other people, but that don't mean that he should do it.

    Baron Max
     
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  5. Betrayer0fHope MY COHERENCE! IT'S GOING AWAYY Registered Senior Member

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    Oh Baron Max, you are such a terrible person.
     
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  7. Enmos Staff Member

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    Perhaps it's due to a mechanism similar to what some grasshoppers have. If living conditions become too cramped they will transform into locusts (the swarming phase).
    Similarly, homosexuality might be a reaction to living in a densely populated area, to impair population growth.

    I'll take that Nobel prize now, or perhaps the dunce cap then..

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  8. Oli Heute der Enteteich... Registered Senior Member

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    So we can "cure" gays by making them live in a big empty field?
     
  9. Enmos Staff Member

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    lol Perhaps

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    But I don't think it would be reversible.
     
  10. Oli Heute der Enteteich... Registered Senior Member

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    Pfft, it might make a good research thesis (so long as there's LOTS of funding available).
    Ooh, nasty joke: it would bring a whole new meaning to "camping"

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    I must remember that one to tell the guys next time I'm out for a pint at The Venue.
     
  11. Enmos Staff Member

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    Hehe.. you know what ? Gays are going to safe the planet

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    Hmm that might not be such a good idea.. lol

    I was of course kind of joking, but it might not be far from the truth. An easy way to start researching this is to look into the percentage of gay people in various population densities.
     
  12. Oli Heute der Enteteich... Registered Senior Member

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    The planet?
    Heck, most of the gay guys I know are more interested in "saving" me.

    Oh, they'll love it.
    These are the guys that introduce themselves with "My name's Paul and I'm a real puff. Buy me a drink sweetie!"
     
  13. Enmos Staff Member

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    Well, they would be indirectly savoring your ass

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    Hum but don't you think you comparing them to swarming locusts would ruin the magic a bit ?

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  14. baftan ******* Valued Senior Member

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    None of them, it's human (I separate homosexual tendencies among other animals); because human homosexuality has to deal with other humans; either for gaining rights and protecting itself, or for satisfying itself.
    I reject to impose the responsibility of our conditions to non-human entities. Even the most natural things become something totally different in human hands: For eating and securing itself, we have food and weapon production industries and policies, and we design them not because nature or nurture tell us to perform these activities in a way we are currently doing; because of our consciouss decisions.
    Homosexuality, or any other thing in that matter, could be originated from nature or nurture, or combination of both. However once it becomes the part of our reality, it has nothing to do with its origins.
     
  15. Enmos Staff Member

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    Huh ? Why not ?
     
  16. Oli Heute der Enteteich... Registered Senior Member

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    Damn, swarming locusts is exactly what they remind me of when I walk in the door!


    PS Cellar Door, I'm sorry Enmos dragged your thread off-topic.
    The OP is interesting, I'll see if I can come up with a relevant response.
     
  17. baftan ******* Valued Senior Member

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    Exactly because of your question: We ask "Why" and "Why not" questions, so we can change, modify and alternate the origin.
     
  18. Enmos Staff Member

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    Yikes..

    While mildly ridiculous, my 'hypothesis' was not off-topic. In fact, I'm going to stand by it

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  19. Oli Heute der Enteteich... Registered Senior Member

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    Mildly ridiculous?
    Er, I think the first reaction would be that it is, but it made me think "Hey... there's a thought".
    But.
    If being gay is triggered by over-cramped living conditions is it not also likely to be triggered by lack of other resources? Food, water... etc?
    In which case shouldn't there be a rise in homosexuality in some of the resource-poor regions of the world?
    After a drought?
    Or even after a particularly nasty and long-lived plague of locusts...?
     
  20. Enmos Staff Member

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    That's not how it works in grasshoppers. In grasshoppers it is triggered by cramped conditions, not low resources. Although it's obvious that one follows from the other.
    Cramped conditions can be seen as a signal that resources will be low soon. Nature just acts before it's too late, I guess.
     
  21. Oli Heute der Enteteich... Registered Senior Member

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    Ah okay.
    I just thought that cramped conditions (being a sort of precursor of low resources) would somehow be synonymous with low resources.
    That's weird - they'll "stop breeding" if there's no space, but they continue if there's no food?
    Strange.
    (I always thought biology was weird).
     
  22. Enmos Staff Member

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    Well, the locust phase consists of much stronger fliers. They can travel great distances in search of food. I guess that's why it happens.
     
  23. Betrayer0fHope MY COHERENCE! IT'S GOING AWAYY Registered Senior Member

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    Dunce cap, please.

    Humans have two basic needs, and a third need after that. In order of what the body subconsciously needs and longs for most, it is,
    Survival,
    Reproduction
    To Belong.

    I'd assume not reproducing goes above something like "To Belong (killing your lifeline for society's benefit)", so it really cannot be that humanity has some ESP shit going on and God of Humans decides too many humans, make some gay.
     

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